Hi, all

Yesterday, My friend rescued very rare Japanese bodied Austin Seven saloon.(not Dutsun!)
It looks like Ruby but it has suicide doors and strange bonnet.


So, I thought this A7 is Japanese special model.

My friend measured wheelbase and rear axle(backplate to backplate). It was 6'3" wheel base and backplate to backplate was almost 3feet 1/2 inches.



The picture shows that it has later LWB rear axle case but chassis is SWB!
Also leaf spring is different and dumpers are heavy duty, wheels are 18 inches!

So Austin exported them without body to Japan before a war from the U.K. (fitted with SWB chassis and LWB rear axle.)

Maybe Austin creates SWB chassis in 30's again for Japan and they made special rear axle case.

This is very strange thing but very interested!

Junichi

Location: Japan near KYOTO

The wheels on the offside (right) look wrong to me. Nearside (left) rear spring/damper look twisted too - is that accident damage because the wheel looks too far forward in the arch?

Location: Damp but mild southern France

Hi Reckless,

Yes, offside wheel is wrong because this car used for display for a long time.

I think this A7 didn't work many many years and someone bought it and used for display. So no engine and gearbox.
I cannot find any big damages.(many rushes and body work is too bad) but no accident damage anywhere.

It is SWB chassis with look alike Ruby so it is a little bit undersized.

Jun

Location: Japan near KYOTO

The fixing of the body to the chassis looks quite crude and the rear chassis extensions that support the back of the body look home made. I wonder if it's a body from another car fitted to an A7 chassis. The body has a lot of Singer Bantam about it.

Steve

Location: Nr. Selby, North Yorkshire

Looks great Jun,

I quote relevant extracts from the Source Book:

"Datsun Saloon 1934

Manafacturer: Nissan Motor Company, Japan

History: During 1934/35, between 350 and 500 Austin Manufactured low frame Ruby Chassis were exported to Japan. These Chassis included Austin Manufactured radiators and Radiator cowls and were then built up as Saloons...

Coachwork: On some of the imported Austin Chassis were built Japanese bodies very similar tot he British-manufactured Saloon Type ARQ, with the exception of the bonnet which had Louvre vents and a narrow scuttle... the overall length was reduced over that of the British counterpart, in order to meet Japanese licencing laws controlling the length and width of vehicles....

Dimensions: Wheelbase 6' 3" track 3' 4"

Wheels and Tyres: 4.00 x 18" Austin Manufactured wire wheels.

Back Axle: 'D' type axle"

By 1935 the radiator cowl was of Datsun's own design with disc wheels and other changed features. Your friends car has running boards so I would suggest it is perhaps a late 1934 or very early 1935 Model (the 1936 Model had 17" wheels, easily changed however, and there were no running boards and the bonnet had 3 vents not dissimilar in shape to the Ruby ones), do you have a chassis number? The special short Austin Chassis and narrow axles continued to be imported into Japan until 1937. It is a very interesting car, does it have a small boot on the rear?

Hi, Ruairidh

Thanks for the information. But I think Datsun didn't build Austin Sevens.
So this body was made by some coachbuilders. (I will search any plates.)
Chassis number is unknown now but the new owner will search it. (engine and gearbox was lost.)

It has boot lid on the rear but is it original? No one knows, very mysterious cars but very interesting.


I know 4 sevens with Japanese bodied car.

Jun


P.S.

License plate is joking! hahaha

Location: Japan near KYOTO

Hi Jun,

my understanding is that that Datsun initially used modified rolling chassis and engine from Austin and fitted their own bodies to them. The complication is that so did a small number of other Japanese body makers (but in very small quantities)...

Hallo allemaal, to me the chassis side members look different then an A7 chassis ea. too broad and too low, because I only know Ruby chassis (l & r drive), I'm not certain. Is the reardoor an original item? The Willy's Overland Crossley I own has one but was put in there during WWII to prevent confiscation by the German army. Interesting object, sorry for my bad English, Dirk

Location: 12 feed below sealevel

Hi Dirk

What you can see that looks like a shallow section of chassis is actually the chassis extensions, look at the damper mounting for a point of reference.

All

What I cant make out is if its a short chassis with a wide axle, how are the springs mounted, one end or the other must be different to standard?

Stuart.

Location: Not Cornwall

Hi Stuart, you put me right on that point, with glasses on I saw it !! Thank you , DIRK

Location: 12 feed below sealevel

When the patron of the NZ VAR recently visited the Heritage collection at Gaydon he photographed an apparently similar car "under the back stairs"

Location: Auckland

Hedd is correct, factory assembled that way to get over the Japanese restrictions on length and width of cars at that time.

Around 1932 Austin purchased an example of a car being produced by a small Japanese company named DAT ( and something to do with Mitsubishi??) that bore an uncanny resemblance the Seven in many ways. He was concerned that Patents had been infringed. The car was brought to Longbridge via Australia or NZ (I think), and dismantled. This is the point at which he entered into discussion about importing the modified rolling Chassis for cars like the one Jun's friend has just bought.

Steve Barker's late and great friend Ken Warren was as knowledgeable as any on the subject, he brought a group of Japanese Austin Seven enthusiasts to my parents house once when I was a child, we have a photo of them making some origami birds on the sofa. I am sure Ken wrote more on this subject, in the Association Magazine??

The Gaydon car is as far as I understand a Datsun, not and Austin Seven of any kind. The connection between Austin and Datsun is a rather tenuous one:

Initially Austin exported a few complete cars, and commissioned a local panel beater (possibly called Nishin Manufacturing?) to repair and dings and scratches that occured during shipping. When they later exported chassis-only, the same panel beater (as well as a couple of others) tooled up to make these Ruby-like bodies. As well as making bodies for Austin they partnered with Datsun to make bodies for their similarly proportioned chassis. One can understand Sir Herbert's suspicions when Austins and Datsuns shared not only major mechanical dimensions but also body designs!

The reason for the short track & wheelbase was (as Ruairidh suggests) a taxation issue - the taxation class of cars being determined by overall length and width. The Ruby axle would have pushed the dimensions into the next catagory and made the car less affordable.

Peter.

Location: Inverness

More information here:

...and here...

....and yet more...

Thanks Ruairidh for the very complete background of the Datsun/Austin story.

Perhaps Gaydon should dispose of their red herring and thus reduce the ongoing confusion!

Location: Auckland

Bob,
I think you will find the reason Gaydon have the Datsun is because it is the car that Austin brought in to see if he could claim the Datsun as being a copy.
Therefore it very much has a place there.
Imitation being the most sincere form of flattery, and all that.

Location: Quakecity, NZ

No need to apologise Dirk, I wish my Nederlands taal (Dutch language?) was as good.

Location: Near M1 Jtn 28

Thanks Ruairidh!

My friend send me mysterious A7 chassis.


This chassis is it in Japan before the WW2.
Very strange shape and it causes short tread. I don't know why.
But amateur can't bend like this so it is original chassis??

Does anyone know this shape??
I think that this shape is related with Japanese automobile law.

Regards,

Junichi

Location: Japan near KYOTO

Wow!

The bending will have brought the springs in closer, allowing a narrow axle to fit a long chassis maybe?
Steve.

Location: East of Sandy and Brian

Junichi,

It would be good to see how this compares with the chassis on your friend's car. Details of how the axle fits to the rear springs would answer all sorts of questions. It would also be helpful to know if the bent chassis is long or short wheelbase.

Bending the chassis rails would be an obvious way to fit a narrow axle to a long chassis, but surely the "Ruby" style cars were short wheelbase anyway?

All very interesting.

Peter.

Hi, Steve

Yes, I think so too. Unfortunately, chassis number is unknown.
Very interesting about Japanese A7 chassis mystery.
Is this chassis factory original? Does anyone have any book or information??

Jun

Location: Japan near KYOTO

Hi Peter,

Yes, I think so too. Bending chassis will allow to fit narrow axle, I don't know what type of axle fitted.

This ruby style car is 6'3" wheelbase(my friend measured) but chassis is not bending.

Very interesting story about export Japanese model.

Location: Japan near KYOTO