Anyone succeeded in repairing a tinplate petrol tank by soldering patches to it? I'm planning to wash the tank out with detergent and then try steaming it. Anyone tried this? How long does it need to steam for??

Location: North Wiltshire

Tim,

I was always taught to put a pipe from a running unleaded petrol exhaust into the tank for about 15 minutes before soldering it.

Tim,

As far as I'm aware petrol tanks in the 20's / 30's and 40's were traditionally made from Terne Plate rather than straight Tin Plate. Terne plate is still available if you Google it - however I haven't checked to see if it's available in the small quantity or correct thickness you need to repair your tank - I'll leave you to check those details out on the web.

The following American website may give you some information on the correct flux etc to use, as standard Solder / Flux may not work as well - though having never done repairs of this kind to a tank, I can't really comment as to the best products or procedure to use. Check the web, there may be some UK sites with further info on patching Terne Plate.

http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/113438

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

I wouldn't even think about it. I'd take it to a specialist repairer who knows what he's doing. Petrol is dangerous stuff. Petrol vapour even more so.

I soldered the split seam of an aeroplane petrol tank with an open-flame gas soldering iron. After a thorough washing with detergent, a vacuum cleaner hose was connected to the exhaust of a running engine and used to purge the tank for 10 minutes before and during the soldering process. If the tank is full of CO & CO2 there is no Oxygen available to support combustion and it is possible but safety precautions MUST be observed.

Location: Ripon

I repaired a tank using Brass plate and plumbers solder and flux. Empty the tank and clean with detergent, run a pipe from a car exhaust into the filler pipe and run engine for 10 minutes. Then repair tank as per my blog.
http://johnboyruby.blogspot.com.

Location: Wet Findon

Use an old fashioned large copper iron, heated away from the tank.

I have patched tanks (terne and plain) using pieces of tinplate (ex jam tins) and on another occasion thin brass sheet, with solder puddled under. Did one with remotely heated iron but last one ran vacuum cleaner output into tank continuously so fumes could not accumulate. Used a plumbers horizontal type spirit (modern unleaded petrol) iron. Made sure no holes and flame not applied directly.
Rust is usually only near bottom.
Not aesthetic!
Soldering is not difficult if metal entirely bright. Use rotary burrs to scour pits.
Duzall flux.

Bob Culver

Location: Auckland

I soldered 2pence pieces that I hammered flat, I filed these down smooth, worked well.

I had no issues of petrol fumes as when I did this the tank had been unused for many years, but take great care.

Location: Saltdean, Brighton

Thanks for all the words of assistance guys, I have washed the tank out with detergent, run cold water through it, kept it outside for a few days, then put it on top of our log burner (currently running on coal for Christmas) for 36 hours. It doesn't really smell of petrol anymore and the house isn't full of vapour, so I'll have a go at soldering it at the weekend.

I might fill it with exhaust fumes, just to be sure to be sure!

Merry Xmas all!

Location: North Wiltshire

Beware,you were lucky Gary.Many years ago, nearly 60, when I was 9, I was with a friend whose father had a Morris chassis in a field.I examined the fuel tank filler with a light to see if there was any fuel to try and start the beast.( I always wanted to get things going) Unfortunately there was no petrol but there were still fumes,they ignited as the light I was using was a match.I was lucky as I was wearing some gauze gas goggles,my fathers from the war, my sight was saved, but my pride and skin took a hard knock.
I learnt a lesson the hard way,if I repair tanks now ,and I have done several,I always wash out well with Jizer and place tank in a 45 gallon drum with a wick to ignite any remaining vapour.

Location: Piddle valley, Dorchester.

Even if it doesn't smell of petrol fumes I would still use an exhaust to purge it. Vapour ignition could occur and you don't want to end up wearing it...

Location: Ripon

It is not necessary to purge the tank at all if you don't put a flame near it. I only use a large, heavy copper soldering bit heated over a gas ring to solder tanks, you must keep this well away from the tank and it is wise to work out of doors as well. a copper bit is a much better way of transmitting the heat to the work in any case, and will give much sounder joints if done properly. It is very important to have the work really clean and the patches well fitting. Soldered joints rely on capilliary action for strength, don't use it to fill gaps unless in an emergency.
Terne plate is lead coated steel and is hard to get now as it poses a perceived health risk in handling.

Location: Wellington New Zealand

When I was 15 or 16 we were touring through France in a small convoy of Austins one of which was a GE Cup Model owned and driven by Stella Wilson at the time.

The car was suffering from an intermittent misfire which we eventually tracked (forgive the pun) to a loose condensor inside the Magneto, the soldered joint had failed. Maurice Buisson our Rosengart friend was traveling with us that day by chance, a plumber by trade he alway carried a small soldering iron and blow lamp in his car which he fired up at the side of the road and effected a repair which lasts to this very day.

I was so impressed by this that I still carry a soldering iron similar but samller to the one shown below:



I use my Primus camping stove to heat it when needed and have successfully repaired oil and fuel pipe joints that have split and, just last summer, a distributor bob weight plate that came adrift from its shaft.

Glad to hear that you carry a Primus! I never go anywhere without some means of producing a hot drink or food. Current favourite is a Borde but I also like the Optimus 8R. Can't stand the smell/taste of paraffin any more, once it's on your fingers it's very difficult to remove. Alcohol gel is supposed to work but I seem to have an acute sense of smell when it comes to fuels.

Location: Ripon

I have a large collection used at any opportunity Duncan, love them!

So have I, this is really a sad git's forum what? I also have a collection of early Sirram "fire & water" picnic outfits...

Location: Ripon

OK, back to the subject.......

Here's the tank, cooking. It's been like this for about 4 days now and now smells like the old hardware shop that used to be in the town when I was a kid!



BTW, Barney, the dog is not actually a demon, just the camera caught his eyes. Red eye removal tool doesn't work on dogs!

I need to find the big soldering iron now

Location: North Wiltshire

Oh! Yes it does!!

His Masters Tank?

Tony

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Tim, your tank would appear to be quite safe to repair now,however you may well find drying it out so thoroughly will give the possibility of flakes of debris coming loose when you refill with fuel. An inline filter is a must and may have to be changed regularly for a while.

Location: Piddle valley, Dorchester.

Nice fireplace Tim

Location: Farnham

Tim. When you have done all the repairs may I suggest you seal the tank. I would recommend 'Tapox' because it claims to be 100% ethanol proof. They advise using 'Fertan' rust converter. You should get a good result. I did my tank with it a few years ago and it seems to be the business.

Location: Derby

Regarding debris in the tank, I had (have)this problem with the Chummy. The car was left unused for perhaps 40 years or more. It had a gallon or so of fuel in it when it was laid up and this turned to.....well a sort of dusty gummy substance that reeked of varnish. When I put the car back on the road, it wouldn't do more than a few hundred yards and that was with a filter! Problem was that the flakes of rust and gummy deposits would block the tap, this being the narrowest orifice between tank and carb.

Things were better after I removed and drained the tank, filled it with brass shrapnel and strapped it to a concrete mixer drum. 3 hours later, I removed three cupped handfuls of brown powder. Now the tap only blocks up infrequently and I carry a "drain and clean" kit.

Location: North Wiltshire

Tim the concrete mixer is a good idea, this SO reminds me of trying to tie the chummy fuel tank onto the tractor rear wheel and jacking up 1 side. I placed too much river gravel inside the tank and the resultant out of balance caused a disaster. cheers Russell

Location: oz

OK, managed to escape the family stuff and get out into the garage this afternoon. Petrol tank had cooked for 10 days or more and was totally inert, even when a blowlamp was put over the filler.
Soldered up the cracks in the rear seam and around the outlet by heating and brushing out the solder, cleaning up and re-soldering with plumbers solder.



I tried a soldering iron but I couldn't get enough heat into the tank. I carefully used the Oxy-Acetylene with a small jet and it worked fine.
Now, it's full of water, testing until tomorrow. Then, cook again and try refilling!

Location: North Wiltshire

Tim,
I pump the tank up to 2psi or so and put it in the bath to test for air bubbles,not forgetting to clean the ring of grime from the bath when finished of course!Water hasn't got the same "searching" property as petrol.I used a rubber bung in the filler hole and an old tyre valve in the tap hole for the chummy and use a tyre pump.I've done three tanks this way so far.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

You should now get at least a part refund on the missing eyebrow insurance that I advised tou to take out Tim.

Location: Wessex

Failed!

After 24 hours, there's a trace of moisture on the seam behind the outlet. Ah well, back to the garage tomorrow, when the latest family party is over!

Location: North Wiltshire

Success!

After the third bout of soldering, the tank has held water for 72 hours. Should be good to test with petrol now, just drying it out in the fireplace again.

Location: North Wiltshire