I assume that you have looked for numbers as per this:-

http://a7ca.org/downloads/QuoteThisNumber.pdf

If you are sure that the original chassis plate is not on another chassis, reproduction plates are available on various sites e.g.

http://www.classic-plates.com/

Location: Oxfordshire

I can understand where you are coming from Dave when you say it achieves nothing, if it were my decision I would allow the Ruby to retain its original number and make it non-transferable.

However, as I've said in the other DVLA thread, the actions of a few have spoilt it for all of us and the DVLA is now working to a directive that only those vehicles that are original, including their chassis number, or on later vehicles, the VIN, correspond with the historical records (nearly all of which revolve around the vehicle's registration number, when it comes to proving history.)

Anything questionable, such as George's missing chassis number will flag up an investigation by the DVLA and although the car may be considered original, the chassis accounts for five points of the eight required to retain the vehicle's original identity, so in many ways you can see their point.

I really do hope they see sense and allow George to keep the original number with the Ruby, albeit non-transferable.

Location: Near Bicester.

Are we not being a bit unfair to the DVLA? I know they can be difficult sometimes but in this case they seem to be trying to prevent a registration number being transferred from a pre war car. Isn't this just the practise that everyone has been complaining about for years?

I realise that in this instance the DVLA may unfortunately withdraw the number in question altogether but without a chassis number, from their point of view, the chassis may be a replacement. Even if the original chassis number can be established, DVLA may have it showing up on another car!

Much as we may form an attachment to a particular number, we have to remember that, in the end, Registration numbers do not belong to the owner of the car. They are allocated by the licensing authorities and remain their property to do with as they see fit. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

Location: Derby

Ray,

The DVLA are simply following the rules as they stand.

no more, no less.

I rather hope the fact that the Ruby has a questionable identity means that the objective, the removal of an original number of a perfectly good car for someones vanity has failed.

Location: Near Bicester.

Thank you, Gentlemen. Not withstanding the arguments for and against the transfer of Registration numbers, this issue has highlighted a potential problem with so called club "experts" being called upon to verify the validity of a car's provenance. Whilst not wishing to question the knowledge of any particular club representative in regard to Austin 7s, it seems to me quite reasonable to have expected the absence of a chassis plate to have thwarted any attempt to establish the car's identity.

It's always easy to be wise with the benefit of hindsight but if I had been faced with this dilemma, the first place I would have gone to for advice is here; where I know my Austin Seven friends would have given me sound advice - even if it was not necessarily what I wanted to hear!

It may not be strictly legal, but I think I would have arranged for a chassis plate (if that is what was missing) to be present before submitting a report to the DVLA but then, as I have said, it is always easy to be wise after the event.

Location: Derby

Reading some of the comments above that the number does not belong to the cars owner,so how can you sell it as some people do if its not yours???confused.Ted

Location: North Yorkshire

Perhaps its just me.

But I like to check all he numbers BEFORE I part with my hard earned when buying a motor of any sort. A Vintage motor is no different.

I would also certainly do so before any dealings with the DVLA.

It makes sense, Hedd, but as you know, it's not always enough. You can have all the numbers looking right but it can still be a ringer.

Location: Derby

I was wondering along the same lines, what if the missing plate miraculously turned up on the workshop floor and was re-attached to the chassis.

Would that change things at this stage ?

Phil

Location: Penrith, Cumbria

Of course the DVLA monitor all sites like this.
Good job too it would appear.

Location: Wessex

Just one more point on the Please Quote Car No plate, All Triumph Herald type models do not have a chassis number stamped on to the chassis, they have a chassis number plate that is pop riveted to the bulkhead of the car. In the Heralds case the bulkhead is a separate component to both the chassis and the main body section. It could be said that according to their own argument about a chassis having to have a chassis number that all Triumph Herald types should be re-registered. It would seem that a president has been set with the Triumph as to the need of a car having a chassis number on the actual chassis for DVLA identification. It obviously does not. If your car has the original Please quote plate fitted that with a number that matches the chassis number on the V5C it should be good enough evidence for them of the cars ID?
Of course we all know that the DVLA makes up its own rules,it would seem as it goes along but should the case go to court it might be a good point for a solicitor to make in your defense.

Location: Pembrokeshire.

The Citroen 2cv has no number on the chassis.
The majority on the road will have been fitted with a new galvanised chassis as most of the originals rusted in a very short time.

Richard M.

Location: Just North of Hadrians Wall

Forgive me for butting in as a Colonial- but I thought an earlier discussion on number plates mentioned that in UK the transfer of old number plates was being stopped?

I think removing a cars original number plates is a bad practice, taking away part of its history for no good reason (I also dislike personalised number plates)

From this exchange I apparently have it wrong.

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

Having owned a lotus Elan it's common pratice to swap out a rusty chassis for either a new lotus made Galvanised one or a spyder upgraded one.
Both being accepted by the DVLA. Early in the cars life lotus managed to get the chassis designated as a Subframe or sub chassis(?)
This is the text of a letter lotus provide ! not sure of its age ?


"It is important to appreciate that all Lotus production cars from 1963 to date, including Elan (type 26), Elan Plus 2, Europa, Elite (type 75), Eclat, Excel, Esprit, Elan (type M100), Elise and Exige, are unlike the vast majority of mass produced passenger cars, inasmuch as they are not constructed as monocoques (integral body/chassis units). Instead, they use a separate composite body and a steel or alloy chassis unit joined together by threaded fasteners. Apart from savings in manufacturing costs due to reduced tooling investment, this technique allows economical repair or replacement of individual body and chassis units.

The original chassis is stamped or engraved with the V.I.N., which also appears on the V.I.N. label stuck to the body or chassis. If the chassis is renewed, the Lotus Replacement chassis will be stamped with LR......... , but the V.I.N. label will remain unchanged, as the vehicle continuity is maintained, with the vehicle retaining its original V.I.N. throughout its life, regardless of how many chassis, engines or bodies it may acquire. The disparity between the V.I.N. and the replacement chassis number is an indication that the chassis is not the same as that used on original build, which information should not be concealed.

Until very recently, Lotus was not able to record the VIN of the car for which a service replacement chassis was supplied, but introduced over the last few years is a revised Lotus policy of stamping replacement chassis with the original VIN and requiring a substantial part of the original chassis including the stamped VIN, to be returned to Lotus in order to prevent the possibility of registry duplication.

The 'classic' status of all Lotus models, and the economically repairable nature of their construction results in a near zero scrapping rate, and a large proportion of older vehicles fitted with replacement chassis. Any chassis supplied through Lotus dealers and stamped LR........ will have been manufactured to the original specification (notwithstanding the current galvanised coating) using factory jigs. In such an instance, if required by registration authorities, Lotus has no objection to an official Lotus dealer engraving such a chassis with the applicable V.I.N.

Within the classic car community, the continuation of the original registration mark is considered to be an important component of the vehicle provenance, and its loss can be emotionally distressing to many owners, notwithstanding any 'knock-on' effects on the valuation of the car. If there is any other clarification, advice or assistance required to avoid this occurence, please contact:
technical@lotuscars.co.uk "


The most intresting statment must be "with the vehicle retaining its original V.I.N. throughout its life, regardless of how many chassis, engines or bodies it may acquire !"

Wonder what the DVLA response to that would be now ?

regards

Brett

Location: Extremely warm garage apparently it's sunny outside !

Lotus has always been a law unto itself, even in F1 racing!

Location: Near Bicester.

I would think the fact that Lotus police this be requiring the old chassis in return makes this viable. They assure the vehicle identity is retained.

Location: Melrose, Scottish Borders

Actually the Citroen 2CV does have a chassis number stamped into it. It can be found on the offside front chassis member directly under the right hand engine cylinder. However it is very likely to be covered in years of oil and crud.