Trying to sell at Prescott yesterday! Take a close look!

For interest - There are several images of the car here: National A7 Rally

Location: North Herts

I've just looked at the DVLA site and tried DTC 374 as GN, Frazer Nash, Frazer-Nash and Austin.
"Vehicle details could not be found", maybe it belongs to no one.

Ah, but if you key DTC 374 into mycarcheck, it comes up as a Frazernash (Sports). I haven't tried it yet, but presumably it's on the DVLA as a Frazernash.

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

Yes, it's under Frazernash - Taxed until 1st December 2015, first registered 17 February 1939, year of manufacture 1939, 1990cc, colour black.

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

The seller now appears to have changed his ebay i.d.!

UJ 8724

mycarcheck says 'Austin Ruby (Saloon)'.

DVLA says' Vehicle details could not be found'.

Looking at the length of the steering box drop arm I'd think the steering is interesting too,1/2 a turn lock to lock ?

DVLA records show the make as Austin Ruby (that's why you couldn't find it,Henry!).
First registered 31 December 1936, 747cc, Colour Maroon, Tax not due.

Oh dear, the DVLA will be all over that one like a cheap suit!

Location: Near Bicester.

why? it ticks all their boxes, body over 25 years old (with sufficient provenance to prove it) and major parts from one vehicle. Sure the body type needs to be changed, and the way things are it'd be prudent to see that done before money changed hands. It's an interesting case for sure.

Andy

Location: Oxfordshire

well at least the body is over 25years old......

It's that change from Ruby saloon to single seater/sports/racer that's the big box to be ticked Andy!

Location: Near Bicester.

But who would want a 'racing'car that handles and performs like a Ruby? No one in their right mind.

The prospective buyer may have no intention of using it on the road and just build it for hill climb and competition. A lot of race car owners have no real interest in road cars or the associate registration issues. Just as long as the prospective purchaser is aware of the cars true provenance?

Come to think about it, its all mouth and no trousers, isn't it. Has anyone got a Ruby that handles like a racing car? That would be the bees knees...

Given the quality of the build would you feel safe racing it, even at ruby speeds

Location: NZ

My Pearl is not a Ruby I admit, but, with 3 the Bearing engine, it would pull a genuine 70mph (which was "genuinely" terrifying), it will now cruise at 60 mph on two bearings but not a lot more, are Rubies the best analogy?

Ok fair point, I did not in anyway intend to be disparaging about Ruby's, I just look at that steering arm and after my recent experience it scares the bejesus out of me at any speed.

Location: NZ

I totally agree.

That horribly bodged drop arm wouldn't pass even a cursory roadworthiness test here, and I would hope a half decent race scrutineer would fail it!
This is the sort of unsafe modification - along with dodgy brake alterations that the recent Victorian VicRoads Club registration regulations are trying to stamp out.

We can complain about the 80 year old designs not being up to modern requirements but that is the whole point of the vintage movement - careful rebuilds to the original specifications with as far as possible original components, driven with a careful attention to the fact that it is a car designed when 20 mph was the allowable maximum speed

I would suggest that your DVLA should be concentrating on vintage vehicle safety rather that a slavish attention to controlling the rash of reconstructions masquerading as real vintage cars- but that is just my opinion!

Rant over!

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

Next people will be suggesting that all cars go through an (annual?) independent safety test before they are allowed to take them on public roads (rolls eyes and exhales audibly).

Ruairidh,

You surely aren't referring to an annual MOT test?

Tony.

PS Here a roadworthy check is required when first Club or fully registered and then whenever the vehicle changes owners. As with the MOT this only applies the day the check is carried out and catches honest people but it is a start.

T.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

No Tony, I was suggesting that, the next we know someone will be suggesting that all cars should undertake an (annual?) independent safety check before they are allowed to drive on public roads. I then rolled my eyes and breathed out loudly. I trust we are now clear on this :)

And I thought that was what the MOT was- shows how wrong.

I will just go back to preparing for tonight's Monthly General Meeting

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

And who said that irony was lost on Colonials....

Some Blaud's Pills cure that!

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

As Tony says re steering drop arm an MOT tester may pick up on this,especially how direct the steering must be.
Worse case scenario here is some unsuspecting buyer here gets into a serious or fatal accident with it,reaches the local or national papers and accidents with similar aged cars get scrutinised.
I don't like to whinge or criticise but on the road,standard suspension,brakes,old oversized cross plies,no lighting or mudguards and dubious provenance its not good for the old car movement.

I think you will find that I am in total agreement with you Austin/Dave and also that Charles has hit the nail on the head.

This type of case illustrates one of the worst possible outcomes following abolishment of the MOT in my opinion. I do however respect those who (correctly) argue that, for a high percentage of old cars, the MOT inspection had become little more than an excuse to put the kettle on and catch up - this practice effectively sealed its fate.

I applaud those who bring cases like this to "our" attention and hope that the shame of it will encourage people to think carefully about what they throw together for profit whilst exploiting the loophole allowing pretty much anything vintage to now be driven on the public highways without any form of inspection.

No requirement for our old cars to be subjected to an annual test like the MOT will have further ramifications for the movement I am certain.

For your interest here is another closeup picture. The return water pipe seems to have a tortuous route!

Has there been any suggestion that it has been used on the road?

Scaremongering regarding MOT's does the hobby no favours.

You might not like the water pipe but without seeing the whole system it's difficult to comment. It could be perfectly adequate.

As a closed course competition car it wouldn't have an MOT, but would go through scrutineering at each event. So a "safety check" is carried out each time.

With regard to the steering arm, again I can't comment on its construction and safety, but less than 1 turn lock to lock is reasonable. My own car has 3/4 turn lock to lock.

Looks like its taxed.

It would not be allowed on the road here...it has a clamp type cable adjuster!

Bob Culver

Location: Auckland, NZ

The car was driven into The Orchard car park at Prescott. No trailers are allowed in there and the road outside is too busy to park up and unload. So it must have been driven on the road, albeit for a short distance.

Location: South-East Surrey

The DVLA database actually says, at the top of the page under the registration UJ 8724 - "Not taxed for on road use", then lower down the page under Vehicle Status: "Tax not due".

I take it from that, that it's not taxed for use on the public road.

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

Nor insured

The drop arm and drag link look particularly well engineered. A lot of thought has obviously gone into their modification. The ultra quick steering may benefit from some additional toe in over standard though.

Paul N-M

I've no connection with the owner, no idea who he his. But why are we so intent on trying to tear aspects of our hobby apart? I am not interested in sitting in a field eating egg sandwiches polishing a Ruby for the 8th time this summer, BUT I've absolutely no problem with people who do, and I don't pop up and criticise them on forums.

Let's look at the positives?

I know of one person who had a lovely car but due to the constant bickering on this forum gave up sold the car and moved on.

My local group has an average age of at least 60. If we're not positive about our hobby, support all aspects of our cars, modified and standard, all support will slowly cease?

I have the same dislike of sitting in fields and it's true that "group think" does affect forums like this (and it's not always attractive). Cyber Bullying is real.

My only objection to this car is the misinformation that associated the recent auction listing. If it had been described differently (correctly), if the listing had been amended when I know that a number of knowledgeable forum members messaged the vendor with the real history I'd be probably more sympathetic.


Charles

I agree with misinformation, but bickering over mechanical details and how it arrived in a car park. Maybe it was unloaded at the entrance and pushed into place? At VSCC events there are some wonderful specials of "unusual" parentage but that's the joy of the events?

Yes I quite agree there are some fantastic specials out there, I am currently building one and no doubt some will like it and some will think things could be done better. Special builders all have there own ideas and skills and that is one of the attractions.

That's not really the point here though.

From outset this car seemed to be pretending to be something it was not and if so had the potential to hoodwink a buyer.
It could well be the case that on enquiry a potential buyer was fully informed by the vendor what was actually on offer.
However the nature of the offer as initially advertised has led to more detailed scrutiny of the car in general and consequently the motives of the vendor. If this has resulted in concerns being raised about its construction, safety, whatever, that is the risk vendors expose themselves to.

As it stands this car does not appear to be legal to drive on the public highway. Even with wings etc it does not look practical for the road anyway.
If someone buys it for the track I think he/she will have fun at scrutineering unless they do a lot of preparation work beforehand to be MSA compliant and safe.

We are very fortunate in this country that we can still modify our cars, build specials out of pre war Austins and not have to have them 'approved' by VOSA or whoever.
Contributors to this forum have many years experience between them mucking around with A7s and are quite justified to raise concerns where they see fit.

Paul N-M

I dont believe that for one minute, the whole confection has been assembled quickly with the sole intention of making money. IMHO the steering modifications were out of necessity due to the body construction, the fact that it has resulted ultra quick steering is a fortunate accident. I have a particular dislike of of those who are dishonest and lack integrity, I feel that they do immeasurable harm to our hobby. As I said previously I have no problem with the concept of marrying the body to an A7 chassis, if the vendor was more truthful and had spent a little more time dealing with the mechanics of his creation he could have made a decent car.

Location: NZ

Ian I think you failed to spot the tongue bulging out my cheek!
Paul N-M

Location: NZ

The seller of this machine is 'Piers' who has a phone number that list him as living in the Malvern, Gloucestershire area.

Does anyone know who he is?

Again I'll state I have no connection with the vendor of this car.

But when it came up for sale I thought it looked quite good with a certain degree of "patina"!! Obviously it needed finishing and a significant amount of additional work but that's what special building is all about?

I called and spoke to the seller and had a very enjoyable chat about this and old cars in general. Maybe I asked the right questions having scratch built a single seater I've a basic idea of how Austin 7's work and the parts involved but at no time was I deceived as to the history or as to what was actually be sold.

As I've said it was actually a very pleasant and humerous conversation.