I know they occasionally hold the odd Cardiff Blues rugby game there, and Cardiff RFC still play there, but I doubt they get more than a couple of thousand people in there every fortnight.
That must be prime land under that ground for some sort of redevelopment, it certainly isn't being used to its full potential at the moment.
How long can this go on for?

As long as Cardiff Athletic's club want it to. There are also covenants on the land preventing it being used for standard commercial or residential development.

Dai

the covenants are not really worth all that much in a legal sense. They can be overcome through proper process.

I thought the Blues were headed back there next year anyway, and just playing a handful of games at City stadium ?

The way they are currently managed and losing players they could play on the bowling green at CAP and still not fill it.

I think this is a case of wait and see with the move back home. There is no doubt the club are in freefall and what is worse it is totally self inflicted, as a result a number of rumours are wildly circulating.

Care to summarise some of the rumours?

I think you'll find they are pretty hard to overcome especially with a hefty support behind them which remains. Peters pieman has I know spent significant amounts of money investigating the possibilities. No Joy for him, Sure he would pay you for your input though.

ok, we'll agree to disagree. my money is on the council having a better understand of how to overcome the covenant than anyone at the blues or the athletics club

the council, your kidding???

no, not at all. the covenant is not worth the paper it is written on and can be overcome as long as there is a will on all sides

courts take a dim view of 'in perpetuity'

well yes, but there isn't a will on all sides and courts will support the covenant in those cases.

The only thing council ever wanted from the site (Mill Stad & CAP) was to make sure it was fit for a Champions League final, now that the Convention Centre is mooted for Wood St, they will leave CAP alone, they don't need it. They will still want the football match but the parameters have changed.

As for the rumours re its future use, they are numerous and it is best summed up by saying rule no city location out - from existing sports areas to brown and green field areas, its all up for grabs on the great rumour mill.

% star hotels and the airport are the current reasons we don't get the big footy gigs from uefa.
The corporate and hoi poloi holding pen that was previously seen as a barrier was overcome b y the plans to use the castle a la the ryder cup gig.

Eric, thanks for some clarification. That is interesting, it has been suggested on several occasions that the Council saw CAP as the missing piece of the jigsaw as far as the soccer was concerned.

Eric

I'm not sure that's entirely correct regarding uefa. I'm pretty sure uefa dismissed the castle idea as the top grass in European football may have got wet walking across the road to the stadium. The little dears

Eric

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. UEFA have said quite openly that they will not use MS for a champions league final or Europa Cup Final as long as their representatives have to walk across the road. The Castle is a non starter. I care not what WG think as frankly they have little or no involvement in this other than if it ever came off, the first minister would be all over it like a rash, the sycophants that they are.

don't believe it then old boy, but I am telling you as fact that whatever they say publicly and I have not heard that said recently, the reasons they have given to those in WG tasked with getting such an event is that the hosting side of it is not an issue, the castle as the corporate holding pen will work, but the MS won't get a big game while we lack the airport facilities they want and the num ber of 5 star hotel rooms within a certain distance.
And if you think WG etc or any Government has nowt to do with such events you are again mistaken. WG are very involved in most events in Wales and certainly of this size and prestige.
Take it or leave it, but like I say if you listen a bit more you will learn some things here.

Eric

apologies I cannot edit the former post.

I think you refer to the delegation from UEFA last year. They did stress that CWL had a 'tiny' terminal and that any final would therefore be a heathrow operation. The best WG could muster was that Bham and BRS were both within two hours drive. UEFa also stressed that they would not pay more than the going market rate for hotels and that Cardiff had a history of increasing hotel rates on big sporting occassions. Finally, whilst they appreciated the effort of staging the VIP village in coopers field, the fact it was not adjacent to the stadium meant it contradicted UEFAs rules on hosting finals in category 4 stadia

see attached from UEFA

the best thing we can do though is pretend we still have a chancesee definitions 2.2

of course UEFA have the authority to overrule this definition however given that they were not impressed with the overall infrastructure of Cardiff it is very unlikely that the prescious little darlings with ever come to wales. Its a shame, the Millennium Stadium is famous throughout the world as a football stadium and it would be a major boost to further enhance that reputation by hosting the UEFA Champions league final. it would give much needed revenue to the FAW as well.

but it will never happen, not as long as there is no Exclusive VIP area within the confines of the stadium

link won't work for me.
But my source is the actually written response by UEFA and the corporate hosting side is fine at the castle. Like I say take it or leave it, but you'll see WG are heavily involved in trying to make this happen. Hats off to them.

Eric

i think its good that WG are attempting this sort of thing. however, consideration must be given to the fact that just like our AM's, the UEFA delegation (Platini aside) are a self serving bunch of parasites who don't have the interest of the game at heart but the interest of the delegation. why else do you need an exclusive VIP area? Football should be about the fans and not about shady handshakes and nefarious business deals - we have rugby for that

link has been fixed

Eric - you are very well informed and have almost got the situation summed up perfectly. But not quite.

Jantra - you're mostly wrong.

The truth is the castle is fine for the hospitality side of things as there'd have been a covered (and uninterrupted) walkway the whole way to the stadium.

Although UEFA did refer to the airport being a problem that's a load of rubbish as their concerns about the airport were addressed in the presentaiton they received in the MS. In fact, the air side of things was a strength of the bid as there was natural segregation with one set of fans flying into bristol and the other into cardiff with one coming into the city via the western entrance and the other from the east. Perfect. In addition, Cardiff Airport is perfect for charter flight dominated events because there's load of room there for the planes to park up while they wait for the fans to watch the game and then return to the airport straight after the final whistle (as most of the fans do).

The weakeness on the hotel side of things is true although somewhat overplayed given the proximity of other major cities less than 2 hours away (it takes well over an hour to travel from one side of London to the other so what's the problem with an hour and a half to a hotel over the bridge somewhere?)

Whether you like it or not Jantra, WG are intrinsically involved in this bid along with the MS, Cardiff Council and Cardiff & Co. Without WG input and money in particular, the bid would be a complete non-starter.

All in all I think the biggest issue with the bid is that UEFA in their heart of hearts don't want to come to Cardiff.

Oh yes, hotel prices wouldn't be an issue either as the hotels would be contracted in advance and the bid wouldn't be successful unless the hotels agree to reasonable prices i.e. sign here at these prices and we'll bring the Champs League to Cardiff. If you don't, we won't bring it.

what???? where have I offered any opinion on whether I care if WG are involved or not? I've commented on what has been discussed elsewhere in football circles.

I'm just surprised WG are pursuing this, UEFA will not bring the champions league final to Cardiff. They may have been polite to WG officials and I'm sure your sources at WG will tell you differently, but the little darlings at UEFA need to be pampered

isn't that what I said?

OK, apologies if I was wrong when I inferred that you cared one way or the other whether WG are involved.

However, you did refer to WG in the following terms:

"I care not what WG think as frankly they have little or no involvement in this other than if it ever came off"

On this you are factually incorrect. They are heavily involved.

ok, sorry, my bad. I mean WG have little influence in making this happen. if this was ever to happen (and I reckon it never will as much as I'd like it to), its because the delegates from UEFA want to get wet when walking from their VIP lounge to the match.

WG can go on all they want that they are heavily involved, but if UEFA don't want to play in Cardiff, it will never happen.

You created the question that hotel prices was one of the reasons UEFA won't choose Cardiff. That's completely wrong. It's wrong because UEFA always intended to contract in advance.

What is correct is that they were concerned about the number of rooms at 4* and 5* that might be available. Fair comment to be honest.

Jantra - You've basically made out in this thread that you know all of the facts behind the case. There's nothing wrong with that but where I'm unsure about something I'd probably say so. Why don't you position your statement(s) as assertion or opinion rather than fact?

I'd love to see plans for this covered walkway. How long would the roads need to be closed for to set it up and take it down again?

it was said tongue in cheek - as in - the match will be here only if it pleases the UEFA darlings to be here and not based on whether the FAW could stage the match

The only bit on a road would have involved crossing the road by the pub bit of the Holiday Inn. That could be done in a few hours. The rest would have been in the park with no disruption to traffic.

How far is it from coopers field to the VIP seats

CAPITALL, starting a dangerous game arguing with the JANTRA, but fair play you sum it up nicely.

He certainly does, from wg's position. But wg don't make the decision, uefa do. And there is more chance of Wales qualifying for a world cup than uefA giving us the champions league final.

Whilst its commendable of wg for even trying, I'm surprised no one at the faw told them what a sycophantic bunch you need to be to persuade uefa. Brown envelopes spring to mind.

yes true, think that brown envelope lark features stornglky or at least gifts.
But on a plus note you have been educated a bit and moved your stance, small step, but your coming on old chap.

Not really Eric, I just cut out the middle man. Why discuss whether wg can influence the decision when it's bugger all to do with them

so when you said in an earlier post about the WG not being involved at all, thats is what you meant, ahhhh, your minds working becomes clear. if you express your thoughts and arguments a bit clearer near the start of a discussion they sure would be a lot shorter.

I love this forum

why??

The humour Eric, the humour.

To be fair to Jantra, Europe is a massive place with scores of cities that are more synonymous with football than Cardiff and haven't had a major European final.
We just don't deserve it, yet.
If Wales can qualify for a tournament or cardiff at the very least have a premier league team then we'd have a chance.
Yes we have a good stadium, but that isn't enough.

do you think? i think wales / cardiff is a choice destination for a major final. Stadium competes withe best in europe and as a city centre location is great for fans and wales and cardiff havw a long, proud footballing history central to the games development. Its a bit harsh not being consideed when you get the likes of the ataturk stadium of 2005 cl getting the gig.

I think it would make a great venue, but that wasn't my point.
Your example of the ataturk stadium would seem to be a bad one.
Istanbul is home to several top clubs, including galatasaray, fenerbaçe and besiktas. Galatasaray alone have won the uefa cup, the super cup and been a champions league semi finalist twice.
Turkey have qualified for several recent tournaments and reached the semi final of a world cup.
I doubt anyone in Europe outside of south wales would think that cardiff has a better football pedigree than istanbul.

I don't disagree with any of what you've said, Istanbul is a huge football city, a huge city full stop in fact.

The thing with UEFA is they're a bunch of corrupt bastards aren't they ? I'm, not convinced that they are interested in anything other than power and enjoying a jolly or ten a year. UEFA, just like FIFA and the IOC are a bunch of tossers that just can't be trusted.

Take the awarding of the World Cup.

Now, I'm a fully paid up member of the ABE brigade but how the hell didn't England win the bid ? Methinks politics played a part, and a few improved bank account balances.

Maybe Carwyn and co could bribe them, maybe offer them some free prescriptions or something ?

the ataturk stadium, its an ok stadium - never gtreat with an athletics track for footy in my book - in a great city but gets hammered by fans because its on the edge of istanbul, some 20 plus odd miles from the city centre and is a bugger to get to not being on the public transport system. Recallboth sets of fans moaned at 2005 about the location and getting to it.

without doubt, palms of silver are often crossed for big football decisions.

for a fan, cardiff is hard to beat having been to many around europe.

Can anyone quantify how much money this soccer match would bring in for the city? Would it equate to a Six Nations game like the French match a few weeks back?

I presume if it gets the match it won't see another for what, 20 years minimum?

Couldn't the arms park be used as a temporary VIP area?

Dear.
Mr Sepp blatter and co if you bring the champions league final, UEFA cup or European cup to cardiff i promise to buy you a gorgeous Cadwaladers ice cream.

http://www.cadwaladersicecream.co.uk/

Apparently there vanilla ice cream had a secret recipe, reputedly including the addition of 6lbs of "shan't tell you" and "a great deal of love and care."

in terms of commercial revenue it would dwarf the six nations NQAT.

you'd have TV companies from all over europe and the world present, the money involved is quite staggering.

and as for the use of the word soccer, go and wash your mouth out