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Public art

We used to have a tread on public art, but search does not bring it up. Is search limited? Or do threads get deleted after a certain time?

Anyway...

The Owain Glyndwr Society want to pay for a new statue of Owain Glyndwr that is visible to the public in Cardiff, and the council have commented favourably.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-news/2012/10/02/new-statue-of-welsh-hero-owain-glyndwr-set-for-cardiff-91466-31942244/

Do we reckon it'll be any good? Where should it go?

Re: Public art

Quite ironic really given that Owain Glyndwrs major connection with Cardiff is that he ransacked the place!

As for locations I've always thought the end of St Mary St where the statue of the Marquis of Bute once stood is a good place for public art (forever known as the monument end). I'd like to see it mounted on a high plinth to create a landmark. Not quite Nelson's Column size but something you can see from a distance.

Other than that I suppose near the Senedd is the most appropriate. But where? I'd be tempted to move the Ivor Novello statue (which I think is quite awful) and plonk Owain in between the Senedd and the WMC. Perhaps create a public speaking/rallying point around it like Hyde Park corner.....

Re: Public art

Good call that, Karl.

Re: Public art

It might be written into the plans for the central square/callaghan sq/convention centre talk we've heard of lately. I could see that working for the council, part of making a new public space and getting some public art in for free...

Re: Public art

I'd rather some interesting, bold modern art a la Dublins spire (I appreciate that that is far more costly though).

Re: Public art

James
I'd rather some interesting, bold modern art a la Dublins spire (I appreciate that that is far more costly though).



Given that the Owain Glyndwr society have already raised the money for a statue of this Welsh icon, that is exactly what this project will commission. I think that you are English, which may explain your pooh-poohing of this idea. This statue should greet visitors to the city entering a new Central square from the train station.

Re: Public art

I think one of Roald Dahl would be more suitable where the one of Novello is...

And while we're at it, melt down the 'family ones' in the city centre that have absolutely no meaning whatsoever to Cardiff.

Also, wouldn't make sense to have Callaghan in Callaghan Sq?..

Re: Public art

I think it would be a good idea to have a public work of art dedicated to Glyndwr. Whilst he is a polemic figure, it is important for the capital of Wales to recognise such an influential figure in Welsh history.

A monument park would be something to look down maybe. There are some really good statues in the city which, I feel, would have more impact if they were all joined in together into some sort of park, maybe along the walkways of Bute Park.

Re: Public art

Redragon
....

Also, wouldn't make sense to have Callaghan in Callaghan Sq?..


I faintly remembered talk about this when when TB was PM. I just searched on the web but all I can find is the original article from whence I got this memory:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_headline=fundraising-bid-for-callaghan-statue&method=full&objectid=18864296&siteid=50082-name_page.html

Being as it is indeed now 2012, it looks as if such a plan for the centenary of his birth has sadly lapsed.

Re: Public art

Redragon

And while we're at it, melt down the 'family ones' in the city centre that have absolutely no meaning whatsoever to Cardiff.


Could not agree with you more, for the love of god will someone get rid of those ridiculous neo-soviet style statues. Any visitor could be forgiven for thinking they had wandered into Stalingrad.

As for Mr Glyndwr, its an odd choice really. According to actual history hes about as local to Cardiff as Tom Jones is to Gloucester. However Cardiff could do with a bit of medieval statue pedigree. Even if its a weird modern historical veneer.

Re: Public art

SP
I think it would be a good idea to have a public work of art dedicated to Glyndwr. Whilst he is a polemic figure, it is important for the capital of Wales to recognise such an influential figure in Welsh history.

A monument park would be something to look down maybe. There are some really good statues in the city which, I feel, would have more impact if they were all joined in together into some sort of park, maybe along the walkways of Bute Park.


Very Roman.

Re: Public art

A round up and review of Cardiff's public art by the acerbic Mr Mortimer.

http://dicmortimer.com/2013/07/16/public-art-in-cardiff/

Re: Public art

Very difficult to argue about any of those observations really.

Re: Public art

I would love to see those roundabout sculptures done away with, and I'm not so fond of the seeds and spices in Riverside.

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There is no logic to having a statue to Owain Glyndwr in Cardiff. As already said, he destroyed Cardiff, and besides, there is already a very impressive statue of him in City Hall.

Re: Public art

idunno-y
There is no logic to having a statue to Owain Glyndwr in Cardiff. As already said, he destroyed Cardiff, and besides, there is already a very impressive statue of him in City Hall.


That viewpoint would entirely depend on whether you identify with the native Welsh or the 14c English army of occupation.

To claim he "destroyed" Cardiff is absolute nonsense, as Cardiff was little more than a military fort back then.

Re: Public art

Glen

In the early 15th Century Cardiff was a walled town (and had been recognised since the 12th century as a Borough by Royal Charter) of approximately 1500 people. It was the largest Borough in Wales (if you include the Hundreds). It was an important provincial market town and port in South Wales with two friaries, and four churches. By what records exist (mainly Adam of Usk) Glyndwr's attack left little remaining in Cardiff apart from the (damaged) castle and the Greyfriars. Many buildings (including St John's Church) were destroyed and it took years for Cardiff to recover. The Glyndwr rebellion actually decimated the Welsh economy for about 40 years. Personally I think Glyndwr was a great figure whose story deserves a far wider audience. Sticking a statue of him in Cardiff won't do that.

My post was a statement of fact not political sentiment. There are more relevant and appropriate historical figures associated with Cardiff.

A statue commemorating Glyndwr's attack on Cardiff (with a contextual explanation of the wider rebellion) would be relevant and a valuable means of enlightening people on a little known but critically important period of Welsh history, but a simple statue of the man will be about as useful and relevant to Cardiff as one of Hywel Dda.

Re: Public art

I'm not sure if I like this or not. It's different, I'll give it that!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/coming-soon-cardiff-bay-bug-5716110

Re: Public art

That's... different. Tell me, would anyone here be interested in buying food from a gigantic, bug-shaped place on a hot, summer day?

I am personally holding out for a gigantic statue in the Bay, similar to The Motherland Calls in Russia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motherland_Calls

But instead of a scantily-clad woman, it would be a tired, dishevelled Jantra in his dressing gown, and instead of a sword, it would be a leek.

Re: Public art

TheLordcrow

I am personally holding out for a gigantic statue in the Bay, similar to The Motherland Calls in Russia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motherland_Calls

But instead of a scantily-clad woman, it would be a tired, dishevelled Jantra in his dressing gown, and instead of a sword, it would be a leek.


An interesting idea however I think that you're forgetting that while he he is undoubtedly a hero to some Jantra remains a controversial figure that divides the general public.

May I suggest a giant Welsh "Mam" with a plate of welsh-cakes bearing the inscription "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore... but only if they've wiped their feet."

Re: Public art

Ash
TheLordcrow


May I suggest a giant Welsh "Mam" with a plate of welsh-cakes bearing the inscription "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore... but only if they've wiped their feet."


A bit like the giant statue in Kiev, built by the Russians, and known locally as "she who must be obeyed"

Re: Public art

Ash


May I suggest a giant Welsh "Mam" with a plate of welsh-cakes bearing the inscription "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore... but only if they've wiped their feet."


A bit like the giant statue in Kiev, built by the Russians, and known locally as "she who must be obeyed"

Re: Public art

Ash
I'm not sure if I like this or not. It's different, I'll give it that!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/coming-soon-cardiff-bay-bug-5716110


Depending on the materials I think it could be quite good when installed. But I fear for the long term outlook. I doubt it will function as a retail unit. So, left unused, could become either victim to vandals and the elements on the wood, or victim to anti-vandal strategies like bars over the mouth to stop people climbing in etc. I could be wrong and maybe it is more robust than I fear.

Re: Public art

Well based on the report, I think it will be awful...but I'm all for innovation and interest and originality in the bay area so will reserve judgement for now...

Re: Public art

I.e like cardiff to follow bristol and have lots of different models scattered around the city. Currently its lots of gromits differently decorated. Very good and attract people to collesathen all. Previously its been gorill. a

Re: Public art

Eric
I.e like cardiff to follow bristol and have lots of different models scattered around the city. Currently its lots of gromits differently decorated. Very good and attract people to collesathen all. Previously its been gorill. a


The Bristol thing is basically just a variation on the "Cow Parades" that were fashionable a decade or so ago. They're generally regarded as a bit passe and naff by now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CowParade

Re: Public art

They are a bit old tat now, Liverpool had lamb bananas, London had elephants, even Newport had dragons for the Ryder cup!

Re: Public art

I.e like cardiff to follow bristol and have lots of different models scattered around the city. Currently its lots of gromits differently decorated. Very good and attract people to collesathen all. Previously its been gorill. a


I agree, (although it might look like we're copying Bristol again if we did it too soon) but so long as the models were specific to Cardiff... maybe Daleks! Or Giant clark pies

cardiff
They are a bit old tat now, Liverpool had lamb bananas, London had elephants, even Newport had dragons for the Ryder cup!


Ash
Eric
I.e like cardiff to follow bristol and have lots of different models scattered around the city. Currently its lots of gromits differently decorated. Very good and attract people to collesathen all. Previously its been gorill. a


The Bristol thing is basically just a variation on the "Cow Parades" that were fashionable a decade or so ago. They're generally regarded as a bit passe and naff by now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CowParade


Well for something that's regarded as a bit passé and naff (by whom? lol) it's been a huge success for that city. It's brought in the tourists from all corners and gets them exploring the city. When I was out with my nephews and sister trying to locate them I noticed lots of people and families out doing the same, armed with their cameras, phones and maps of central Bristol, talking photos of the Gromits, posing with them; they generated a really great atmosphere throughout the city. No doubt many tourists will come away with quite good impressions of the place.

The Gromits themselves (plus their names) are really interesting too, some such as the one by the Victoria Rooms are splendid, also the fact that they're based around characters/things that have a strong connection to the city is another element worth celebrating.

Clearly if it was happening in Cardiff you'd be saying the complete opposite lol. Bit of an insecurity on your part methinks. I wouldn't pooh-pooh these sculpture trails, especially as we're not in a position to judge other places as to what works given the general awfulness of Cardiff's public art.

Re: Public art

I actually have an idea that we could use.

It's called the Dalek Walk.

Say we have 9 - 12 differently coloured Daleks spaced throughout the city at various historical or tourist-friendly places, such as Cardiff Castle. They would all have to be within walking distance of each other, but if done right, it could become a regular thing for tourists.

Of course, we would need the BBC's permission, and we'd be screwed if they ever moved Doctor Who out of Cardiff, but it was just a thought.

I'd also like to see a gigantic aluminium/silver/chrome Iron Giant standing next, or nearby the Alliance sculpture in front of the Central Library, as I think that would compliment it well.

Re: Public art

If At First You Don't Succeed...
Clearly if it was happening in Cardiff you'd be saying the complete opposite lol. Bit of an insecurity on your part methinks. I wouldn't pooh-pooh these sculpture trails, especially as we're not in a position to judge other places as to what works given the general awfulness of Cardiff's public art.


Don't assume you know me - or what I think. I was merely pointing that cow parades have been around a long time and are generally regarded as bit out-dated and clichéd. I'd have said exactly the same thing if Cardiff had one and I'm happy to apply the same terms to the abysmal Oval Basin "beach". They may be fun and people may enjoy them that doesn't mean either cow parades or urban beaches are a new idea.

I haven't seen the Bristol cow parade so I can't comment on it but at least we gan agree on the "general awfulness of Cardiff's public art"!

Re: Public art

Interesting proposal on the Council website:

14/01015/DCI | THE CONSTRUCTION OF A STATUE OF MAHATMA GANDHI IN LLOYD GEORGE AVENUE IN THE PUBLIC REALM | ADJACENT TO CRAFT IN THE BAY, LLOYD GEORGE AVENUE, ATLANTIC WHARF, CARDIFF, CF10 4QH

Re: Public art

Indeed. The Hindu Council of Wales want to put it up. We are talking about a statue of Gandhi on a plinth similar to the Ivor Novello one, with Gandhi holding a book and a stick, in bronze, a bit over three meters tall including the plinth. It is south of craft in the bay, in what is currently hedge by the road. The location was chosen in discussion with the council so I guess it has a good chance of being approved. I wonder if the finance is already in place, or if this will see the start of a fund raising scheme.

Re: Public art

Me
Indeed. The Hindu Council of Wales want to put it up. We are talking about a statue of Gandhi on a plinth similar to the Ivor Novello one, with Gandhi holding a book and a stick, in bronze, a bit over three meters tall including the plinth. It is south of craft in the bay, in what is currently hedge by the road. The location was chosen in discussion with the council so I guess it has a good chance of being approved. I wonder if the finance is already in place, or if this will see the start of a fund raising scheme.


what has mahatma gandhi got to do with Cardiff? why would we have a statue of an indian statesman on LGA? I'm fully appreciative of what Gandhi achieved, how he achieved it and what he stood for but I can't see the Cardiff connection.

(cue someone telling me he studied here and single handedly built Cardiff Arms Park in between studying)

Re: Public art

I'm fairly agnostic on this. It's not far from the Senedd. Westminster has plenty of statues honouring world statesmen around in Parliament Square - so why not? For me, it depends on how good a work it is. There's a lot of bad public art in the Bay.

I do think there's a tendancy to allow anyone who wants to to errect statues. I'm thinking on the religious gnome on Harbour drive. Hideous!

Re: Public art

You'd have thought that a statute of Jim Callaghan on his eponymous square or one of David Lloyd Geeorge on Boy George Avenue would have happened by now.

Re: Public art

That statue on Harbour Drive annoys me every time I pass it, it's so trite and lifeless. Well, I guess I'd be more worried if it came to life, but you know what I mean.

Re: Public art

Jantra
Me
Indeed. The Hindu Council of Wales want to put it up. We are talking about a statue of Gandhi on a plinth similar to the Ivor Novello one, with Gandhi holding a book and a stick, in bronze, a bit over three meters tall including the plinth. It is south of craft in the bay, in what is currently hedge by the road. The location was chosen in discussion with the council so I guess it has a good chance of being approved. I wonder if the finance is already in place, or if this will see the start of a fund raising scheme.


what has mahatma gandhi got to do with Cardiff? why would we have a statue of an indian statesman on LGA? I'm fully appreciative of what Gandhi achieved, how he achieved it and what he stood for but I can't see the Cardiff connection.

(cue someone telling me he studied here and single handedly built Cardiff Arms Park in between studying)


It's not about the link between Ghandi and Cardiff it's about the idea of the values and humanity that one person represents and how that links, or at least should, to wider society.

Re: Public art

Rhodri
Jantra
Me
Indeed. The Hindu Council of Wales want to put it up. We are talking about a statue of Gandhi on a plinth similar to the Ivor Novello one, with Gandhi holding a book and a stick, in bronze, a bit over three meters tall including the plinth. It is south of craft in the bay, in what is currently hedge by the road. The location was chosen in discussion with the council so I guess it has a good chance of being approved. I wonder if the finance is already in place, or if this will see the start of a fund raising scheme.


what has mahatma gandhi got to do with Cardiff? why would we have a statue of an indian statesman on LGA? I'm fully appreciative of what Gandhi achieved, how he achieved it and what he stood for but I can't see the Cardiff connection.

(cue someone telling me he studied here and single handedly built Cardiff Arms Park in between studying)


It's not about the link between Ghandi and Cardiff it's about the idea of the values and humanity that one person represents and how that links, or at least should, to wider society.



Let's have a statue of Bob Marley then ...

Re: Public art

Wizard
You'd have thought that a statute of Jim Callaghan on his eponymous square or one of David Lloyd Geeorge on Boy George Avenue would have happened by now.


I wonder if they've considered moving the LG statue that's opposite the Museum. We don't really need a second one.

As far as Callaghan goes - I think the jury is still out on his record. As a rule of thumb I don't think people should have statues errected in their honour until a few decades after their death. I mean, how many people know who John Batchelor was - other than "that bloke with a traffic cone on his head"?

Re: Public art

Ash
Wizard
You'd have thought that a statute of Jim Callaghan on his eponymous square or one of David Lloyd Geeorge on Boy George Avenue would have happened by now.


I wonder if they've considered moving the LG statue that's opposite the Museum. We don't really need a second one.

As far as Callaghan goes - I think the jury is still out on his record. As a rule of thumb I don't think people should have statues errected in their honour until a few decades after their death. I mean, how many people know who John Batchelor was - other than "that bloke with a traffic cone on his head"?


If they moved the LG statue perhaps they could use the spot to move the statue of the 2nd Marquis of Bute from Callaghan Square? Whilst I realise the area was to be called Bute Square his statue seems out of place since they moved it from the then bottom end of St. Mary Street. Maybe change it with one of Jim Callaghan which may be more appropriate with the name of the square.

Re: Public art

Rhodri
Jantra
Me
Indeed. The Hindu Council of Wales want to put it up. We are talking about a statue of Gandhi on a plinth similar to the Ivor Novello one, with Gandhi holding a book and a stick, in bronze, a bit over three meters tall including the plinth. It is south of craft in the bay, in what is currently hedge by the road. The location was chosen in discussion with the council so I guess it has a good chance of being approved. I wonder if the finance is already in place, or if this will see the start of a fund raising scheme.


what has mahatma gandhi got to do with Cardiff? why would we have a statue of an indian statesman on LGA? I'm fully appreciative of what Gandhi achieved, how he achieved it and what he stood for but I can't see the Cardiff connection.

(cue someone telling me he studied here and single handedly built Cardiff Arms Park in between studying)


It's not about the link between Ghandi and Cardiff it's about the idea of the values and humanity that one person represents and how that links, or at least should, to wider society.


Do you think the wider public will understand the connection then?

Re: Public art

I would hope that it may resonate with those who know about the man, his thoughts, legacy and allow those who don't to find out a bit more. But then I am an old lefty romantic!!

Re: Public art

Jantra
Do you think the wider public will understand the connection then?


That's an interesting question. Obviously he's well known in the south Asian community and I guess most people north of forty remeber the film. I'm not sure how much Indian history is taught in schools.

For me though it comes back to whether the proposed statue works as a piece of public art. If a well-integrated part of our community want a memorial to someone that's important to them and they're prepared to pay for it, then fine - so long as it's not something like the religious dwarf or the toilet-tile memorial to Captain Scott.

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