Exactly - and that's with a totally full plane which clearly is not the case as mentioned in the article.

On the basis of those PAX, they'd be considering either a bigger plane or running the service more frequently.

its good to see that Carwyn the Caring and his committee of Excellence is having an effect on the pace of change at the airport

change

it is also interesting to note that pax numbers for the first part of the year are 440k compared to 558k the year before. At this rate less than 1m pax per annum will travel from Wales International airport. I am pretty sure WG will suggest this gives us greater opportunity in future years to grow the existing pax base.

It really does make you wonder what the Labour led WG were doing from 1999 to about 2012? They are useless, totally incompetent and really should all do the decent thing and resign en masse, giving the jobs they do to meithrin at my sons school - who really couldn't do a worse job.

Could any of the usual labour/WG apologists try and justify the existence of WG and more importantly, have Labour done anything good for Wales' long term economic health?

Jantra, it has been known for quite a while that they were pulling out. Your constant attacks on the Welsh Government are starting to get extremely tedious and predictable. Change the record

are you saying that we should not hold this (or any) government to account and just simply let them get on with their incompetence?

Welsh Labour led WG have been very poor for Wales - certainly with respect to economic development. You may find that extremely tedious and predictable whereas I do not. What is predictable is that Wales is falling further behind the rest of the UK and WG have no idea how to stop the rot.

indicentally, it matters not if this is old news or not. you may try and hide behind that fact but the fact remains that yet again, CWL is falling further behind Bristol. From a standing start of similar positions in or around 1999 BRS has pulled ahead of CWL to a position that CWL will never recover from. Of course the management of each airport has something to do with this but you have to ask why WG have taken so long (this year) to realise there is an issue and to start any sort of activity to resolve it.

You may find that predictable, i think it is an injustice.

It is like when you renovate an old crumbling house. You enter in and out of the same door whilst replacing, decorating the rest of it. You start with the kids bedrooms, the visitor rooms moving onto maybe the bathrooms, then the living rooms then finally your own room and then you think, "Christ that hallway needs something" and you realise it is a bit crap but it has fallen further in disrepair whilst the rest of the house is being put right but you eventually make a start but the neighbours reckon its all a bit A about T.

Maybe not!

Could people stop referring to the "Assembly" as the Welsh Government, this gives them a sense of importance they just don't have!

Governments make decisions on Tax/Jobs/Foreign Policy.

Where as the "Assembly" talks about things.


I had to put in a FOI to find out why there was not any progress on replacing the Brynglass tunnel lighting and removing the temporary speed limit. This being over ayear since the fire.
Mr Seargent (he of the rough bouncer look!) and his department just ignored my e-mails.

The answer from the FOI request was; the tunnels don't come up to EU spec' so they can't award a contract unless the other work is done first.

The main areas the Assembly have powers in are:

Health; Build a hospital at every second junction on the M4 and then have to work out how to pay for them later

Transport; don't really need to argue this one

Education; insist all Welsh grades are raised to compensate for the below average students, if this fails invent a new Welsh syllabus and give everyone A's

I wondered why they removed the 'International' from the airport's name. Now I know. This airport will end up as a base for the local flying club and sightseeing trips round the area. Book here!

I used to use it but there's no point anymore. I go to Bristol whenever possible otherwise Heathrow/Gatwick - book a hotel and extend my holiday!

RIP Cardiff Airport....

Jantra, Cardiff airport is a private company. The failure there is down to bad management by Mr. Duffy. The news that the Zurich link would be stopped is old news now. It has been known for a while that the serbice was to stop. Carwyn's group was set up to late to do anything about it. The flight has even been stopping over at Bristol for most of its life.

Zack, the Welsh Government is Labour and the Assembly is the administration. Just like the tory led Government in Westminster and Parliament

SP

I am aware of the legal ownership of CWL - TBI/Abertis. Duffy has gone. However, that does not stop us wondering what WG were doing from 1999 - 2012 when, in that time, CWL's pax have more than halved whereas BRS's have more than doubled? You can blame bad management - I certainly do. But you have to ask if everyone in Wales could see what was happening, why did it take Carwyn the Caring and his minions so long to work out something was not quite right?

have a look at Ringway airport - state owned (well certainly owned by the 12 local mancunian councils). This goes to show that CWL could - and should - have been taken forward by VoGC/CCC and others with some sort of assistance from WG. But no, instead we get populist policies and economic stagnation - which - for some reason you want us all to ignore and pretend the flowers are in bloom all over the garden.

I will let you in on well kept secret - under Labour no child in Wales has ever gone hungry and the sun has shone every day.

WG and Welsh Labour are useless. The sooner the electorate realise it the better.

Jantra,

I don't have the answers to why it took them so long to realise that something was a miss. I'm not sure what the relationship between Arbetis, Cardiff Airport and Cardiff Bay is or was. As far as the Duffy was concerned there were no problems at Cardiff. He was fiddling whilst his airport burnt. The problem I see with the airport is that there is no cohesion between VisitWales, Cardiff&Co, the VoG, CCC, WG and Cardiff Airport.

Let me tell you a hard truth too Jantra. Under the Torries our debt aa increased, we have slid back into recession and are at a point where it is going to be extremely difficult to claw our way back out of this.

the above is why, quite correctly, I am suggesting that Welsh Labour are a joke.


the debt was always going to rise under this (or any government). The deficit is being reduced to (near) nil over this parliament, not the debt. the two are not the same.

We would have been in recession no matter what, we are too intrinsically linked to Europe to have escaped their own economic issues.

I discussed this the other day with Gareth, our economy needs rebalancing, not just a stronger private sector and smaller public sector, but we also need to stop the inter generational theft of providing everything for the baby boomers at the expense of tomorrow. that is the real issue that this government needs to tackle.

But it isn't under their remit. Cardiff Airport is a private sector company. They should eother be nationalised or dissolved and a new airport be constructed where it was previously planned.

As far as recession is concerned. Germany, Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium and many more are not in recession. Why should we have slipped back?

I will give you 6 reasons why Wales has slipped back, I can only think 1 reason for!




Not all doom and gloom, launch city for 4G, eat that Manchester!

Transport certainly is wg's remit. Ring way wAs private sector until a local council consortium took it over.

Europe is pretty much in recession, even those you have mentioned have all struggled. Germany, merkel in particular, is fighting to keep the pigs In the euro - why is that?

But you cannot blame Labour for it. If Wales were Conservative they would have left it to the free market anyway. So, I'm not really getting your point.

Without the P.I.G.S the euro couldn't exist. This would force Germany to return to the mark increasing their costs and destroying their manufacturing sector. They may have struggled, but they are out of recession now and things are looking better for them. Britain being one od the stronger European economies should not be where it is. Germany and Holland are some of our biggest trading partners.

Cardiff Wales Airport was doing just fine when it was a council-owned facility, but then it got flogged off to private sector spivs by Jantra's mates in the Tory Colonial Office. The rest is history.

The good old days, eh Jantra?

I do blame Labour as WG are responsible for the economic development of Wales. WG should have used the greater resources and powers at their disposal than SWRDA and ensured that BRS were never in a position to better the CWL offering. They chose not to for whatever reason, preferring the grand populist policies of Rhodri Morgan instead of reform that would differentiate us from South West England for the better. Why not develop the M4 relief road? why not ensure direct trains to the SWML? why not create an enterprize zone for the airport 12 years ago, offering free business rates if certain pax numbers are met (the legality of the last one may be called into question but surely you get the idea).


I'm not sure what the point of the first part is here, you seem to be agreeing with me that the cost of the PIGS leaving the euro will hurt Germany more than the cost of keeping it in.

As for the 2nd part - the UK's economy was built on sand for the past ten years: demand was driven by borrowing and not output created wealth. The government borrowed £100bn (over and above its normal borrowing requirement) between 2003 -2008 pumping into the public sector bloating the workforce by 1m. A public sector worker doesn't actually create output. This workforce went and leveraged up and the nation became free wheeling spendocrats - except we were buying ipods and bmw's and as such all the borrowing was actually flowing out of the UK leaving little wealth behind to pay the borrowings back. To suggest the UK has a strong economy is not quite correct. The UK is adjusting itself back to the long term trend. We also have the double whammy of not only are the borrowings taken out of the economy due to no further borrowing being undertaken, but the funding to pay the initial borrowing back is also removed from stimulating demand. The issue is now structural not cyclical - the UK has far too much debt and it really has to pay it back. We spent yesterday what we are earning today thus we do not get the benefit of our output today.

hilarious!

the airport was privatised in 1995 following the LG reorganisation and pax numbers rose from around 1.1m to just over 2m in 2007. However, since then the airport has been in seemingly terminal decline (no pun intended) with numbers falling below 1m this year (based on current numbers). BRS pax numbers have almost doubled to 5.8m in that time, despite ExcelAir and Easy Jet having a preference for CWLs runway.

If they prefer them why do they not land aircraft there then? Cardiff's days are numbered. They are even planning om expanding Pembrey with Saudi or Dubai money to become an international airport. That may be the future. Cardiff Pembrey Airport

landing and pax charges is the correct answer

Landing charges are competitive with Bristol whilst PAX is set by the UK Government. That's why labour would like it devolved, but it may be too little too late

PAX is not set by the UK government - APD is, but PAX is the number of passengers.

there are 3 charges for an airline - a standing landing charge, a charge per passenger and APD (Air Passenger Duty)

APD is the same for all airports but landing and pax fees are set by the local airport. CWL's are much higher than BRS's

I agree with all the criticisms of the airport. I think it's Welsh Labour's biggest failure, and symbolic of their general shitness.

However, I don't think the principle of 'too little too late' applies with airport really. People don't have great loyalty to them, once they've used them for a flight, they've been used, until the process of booking another flights starts again.

Basically, if Cardiff can do something to attract the flights then the missing passengers will come flooding back as if they never went away.

Cardiff airport is clearly in trouble, and it will die unless something is done.

Unfortunately we are in a chicken and egg situation - passengers dont use it because there are insufficient flights/destinations - Operators dont use it because there are insufficient passengers. Fix one and you fix the other, but if you dont it turns into a vicious spiral.

Yes Cardiff has a smaller catchment than Bristol, but passenger numbers between 2-3 million is a realistic target


So what to do?
(1) Improve Transport links - road and rail - see next two posts for details
(2) Reduce landing fees - this is where WG needs to step in with some sort of subsidy - be a bit creative to avoid illegal subsidies - but do it.
(3) Marketing - CWL/VoG/CC/WG/SEWTA/KLM/Flybe need to finance a joint advertising campaign. I regularly fly Cardiff to Dubai using KLM but most people dont realise you can do this (or anywhere else on KLM worldwide network) or for that matter Air France and Emirates networks who both use Flybe as feeders. You dont have to fly from Heathrow.

Cardiff Airport - Rail Link:

The current rail/bus connection is a joke and I doubt whether anyone uses it. What should be done is build a spur off the VoG line directly to the airport as part of the Cardiff Metro plans. There are already 6 trains per between Cardiff Central and Barry, and if two trains an hour were extended to Cardiff Airport along the new spur it would be a massive improvement. These services could operate as express services between Airport, Barry and Cardiff Central and then on to Pontypridd.

The cost of this spur would be in the order of 20 million which is negligible and could be jointly funded by VoG, CWL and Metro operator

Cardiff Airport - Road Links

The existing road links down country roads and suburban streets is another ioke - but on the other hand the airport does not need a 4 lane superhighway built from the M4 down the Ely Valley and 5 Mile Lane as originally proposed by WG. This was not ever for CWL in any case but was for the military 'university' at St Athan.

What is actually needed are mostly on-line improvements which will improve access to Barry - from the M4 via Culverhouse Cross (which needs a major redesign in any case) - and from Cardiff via the Cardiff Bay to Penarth Link Road and a Dinas Powys bypass..

The Dinas Powis by-pass should be funded by VoG but the Culverhouse Cross-Barry route should be extension of existing A4232 trunk road and funded by WG.

Port Road around Barry should be widened as part of the scheme, and all the way to airport - but again does not need to be a 4 lane superhighway - although a bypass route would be better.

Yes roads are relatively costly, but most of the improvements are needed for Barry anyway - not just the airport

the airport hasn't purposefully priced themselves out in comparison to Bristol, and they try to be as competitive as they can.
Bristol however has greater numbers of passengers so economies of scale take over.
Neither airport is in a great location, and the runway at bristol is one of the more difficult in the uk.

Better ongoing transport links is the only thing that will help CWL the road and rail connections need to be improved.

If there was a direct rail link it would be a feasible airport for so many more passengers.

What brings it home for me is sitting in my garden and seeing flights arriving and departing from both Bristol and Cardiff. Many from Bristol, few from Cardiff!!

CAA Stats' for July came at a fews day back. The rolling year PAX numbers are heading below the 1m threshold.
I reckon the 9th November will be the day!
The BMI numbers will fall out of the stats' by then


Feb 2011-Jan 2012 1.189m
Mar 2011-Feb 2012 1.173m
Apr 2011-Mar 2012 1.170m
May 2011-Apr 2012 1.150m
Jun 2011-May 2012 1.114m
Jul 2011-Jun 2012 1.090m
Aug 2011-Jul 2012 1.066m

So in effect what it needs now is to bag a few routes which can take the strain away from London? Part of the problem is that there are few unique routes between Cardiff and Bristol so in effect there is no real need for both airports - and the much heralded market seems to have spoken with regard to which one is the preferred option.

It seems to me that the under utilisation of Cardiff is an opportunity for the airport to put its hand up and try and get a few middle East routes, maybe a few Australasian ones and maybe a few transatlantic ones to relieve a bit of pressure on the southeast. If we are going to be 17 minutes closer to London doesn't it mean that London is 17 minutes closer to Cardiff? Seems this could also be a bargaining chip in getting improved transport links to Rhoose.

For me at least this is where a bit of WAG/Westminster co-operation could come in. Ah well I guess this is up there with middle east peace and an end to the soul destroying 'talent' shows!

There is no point in aiming for long distance routes to Middle East or North America, when you cant get to the airport - fix the local transport links first.

Bristol's success has been in getting in early wth the budget airlines, and as well as Vueling, CWL should be aiming to get people like Air Berlin and a French budget (cant think of name) to add Cardiff to their destination list, even if it is only a few flights a week - it will bring Euro toursts in (and Cardiff is a great place to visit) and give outgoing tourists new places to visit.

But they must provide decent public transport links - the current bus/traion arrangement is just embarrassing.

The interesting thing with that Swiss airline was there were people using it to come to Wales but nothing going back the other way so people do want to visit Wales from Europe, I agree transport needs sorting out there has to be a station in the airport.

What amazes me about the airport is that not only are there poor bus and train links, there aren't even any taxis! I use the airport quite a few times a year and at first I tried the train and bus links hoping that - like most airports - these provided a reasonable service. They do not. So now I get pre-ordered taxis straight from my door to the airport. This works really well but add £60-70 to the cost of the trip. On occassions when I've not pre-booked a taxi, expecting to get one from the airport, you have to first find and then sit in this crappy white hut and wait sometimes for about 20 minutes for a taxi to show up. What kind of an airport doesn't have a few taxis waiting to take people on their journey? It's just depressing.

Peter Hain is behind a proposal to build a road from Weston across the water to Lavernock this he says will increase Cardiff airport's catchment to the south.
When it was pointed out that is would also make Bristol Airport easier to access from Wales, he said perhaps we could use it for something else.





So the barrage is back on the cards again! PM on Radio 4 had a item on it today.

but is Bristol really any better in this respect?

^^^

what Mmm said. BRS is no easier to get to than CWL if travelling by road or rail. its a misnomer that the lack of decent road/rail has caused CWL to fall behind BRS. its to do with poor management and WG not being able to think how to use their better powers to improve the CWL offering.

Public transport wise Bristol Airport is far, far easier to get to. Get to Temple Meads and you know you'll be on a bus that goes direct to the airport within about 15 minutes.

Indeed, the bus leaves right outside Bristol Temple Meades and is frequent. You can get a return ticket, and buy it in advance online. Once on the bus it is large and has large racks especially for luggage. It does not stop very often. I have used it numerous times. It is also clearly labelled as an airport bus and very easy to see, so you know you are on the right bus. It has onboard wifi and comfy seats. It takes 25 minutes to get there and leaves about once every 20 minutes. More frequently at busy times. It is a professionaly run service.

The Cardiff bus is just a regular bus that literally goes around the houses of Barry before you get to Cardiff. When I used it it was an opportunity to get up close with all the residential areas, and the residents, of Barry town. If it's busy you need to put your suitcase on your lap. No wifi. Average seats. I can't remember for sure but I imagine being a Cardiff Bus service, you need to have the right money as the drivers don't carry change (a great introduction to Wales that would be if you've just landed from another country with your pile of crisp new £20 notes that the driver wont accept, or wants the lot). In Cardiff Central the bus is not well sign posted outside the train station. Instead you have to look up a table for service X91 (which you can do online) to find out it leaves from point F1 in the bus station.

And as the website proudly states:

"The Cardiff Bus service X91 operates between Cardiff Central station and Cardiff Airport every two hours during the day seven days a week."

Once every two hours.

Bristol is much easier to get to by bus and rail.

What exactly would be this enhanced transport link to CIA? The road link is okay so far as I can tell, obviously public transport could be improved. I'm not sure how you could improve the road link, it seems alright as it is. The trouble is that the airport isn't very near Cardiff. Or Newport, Caerphilly, Bridgend etc.

so CWL needs twice as many busses?

that seems a lot simpler than than laying new roads and rail track - and I can't imagine any shortage of vested interests able to provide this service with minimal 'fuss', given sufficient demand


... additionally: wouldn't getting to Temple Mead entail an additional travel stage for most of S Wales?

When I flew to Rygge with RyanAir there was a company that was there for when the aeroplanes landed and then left Oslo two hours before the flights left Rygge. How this isn't happening in Cardiff amazes me. The airport doesn't exactly have many flights, so by having buses there according to the flight schedules is an easy option if you ask me

Cardiff Airport is going to get weekly flights to Dusseldorf starting in May. Finally, we have a German connection. This will hopefully bring in quite a few German tourists to the city. All we need now is an Italian link, even if just for the Six Nations. Things may be looking up for the poor old place.

Weekly???? You mean you have to stay for 7 days minimum on each trip? Sounds more like a timetable for an Ibiza summer holiday jaunt!

I doubt that people are looking for a connection to Germany at any cost/inconvenience.

Imagine the scenario: "Traveller needs/wants to be in Dusseldorf for a business trip/leisure weekend"

Solution:
Fly from Cardiff to Dusseldorf three days in advance, pay for 7 nights in a hotel and fly back 4 days after the meeting has finished...

All I know is that they will be weekly, wether that means more than once a week wilm have to wait until the official announcement

It's quite simple as to why it's weekly, it'd basically a charter flight. To quote the article "It’s understood the majority of seats offered on the flights will be chartered for wealthy German tourists and businessmen"

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/10/11/direct-flights-to-germany-to-be-launched-from-cardiff-airport-91466-32009170/

Cardiff airport is failing for a myriad of different reasons, and frankly it will continue to do so unless the vast majority - if not all - of them are fixed.

It's major issue is the sheer expense of the place, in addition to the PAX and landing charges, everything else costs a fortune too, from the fuel up - (it's why BAMC has it's own private fuel farm).

Couple this with the fact that it is slightly harder to get to than Brigadoon, the terrible passanger facilities, the rudest security staff I've ever met and the appalling transport links, it's not surprising it's dying on its behind.

I'll be honest, the main reason I tend to fly from Bristol (or London, or Birmingham) is just because the whole experience is more pleasant, and feels more efficient, not just because there tends to be a wider choice of flights.

Agreed! That's the reason I shan't be flying from Cardiff in the foreseeable future. Having 'tasted' Heathrow and Gatwick (despite the distance) I don't want to go back to 'Economy'.

I certainly wasn't expecting Lufthansa to be the airline involved. I had presumed it would have been Flybe.

Lufthansa's involvement is at least encouraging because it's a big player in the industry.

Looks like its a Lufthansa service that is actually run by Eurowings and operates only on Saturdays.

Ah...