We currently have orders for new woodwork for both AD and AE model Chummies.

For the AD, we have the complete, but decayed original timber and for the AE the complete body shell.

Several references quote the AE body as being 2" longer and 2 1/2" wider than the AD. These don't make any sense against what I have in the workshop!

The doors of both appear to be identical, apart from slightly thicker timber having been used in the AE.

The length of the top of the body tub aft of the doors appears to be identical.

The width of the AD at the back appears to be 5 1/4" narrower than the AE.

I have as a reference the dimensioned drawing of the AE from the Source Book, but almost nothing ties up with the body that we have.

Can anyone help with measurements from original cars, please?

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E" not a "T".

Hello Martin my AD original body is 57 3/4" from the inside of the hood to the raised moulding at the top of the dash. Body width at the rear just forward of the hood rests is 39 1/2" and width at the top of door slam pillar is 41". Cheers Ian

Location: Bristol

Having once had an AE Chummy registered 1930 I discovered that there is a significant difference in door dimensions from those of the AD. The AE doors are longer from front to back, and the outer panel overlaps the body rather than having a bead round the edge. Sorry I can't give the dimensions involved; more than 30 years have passed!

Robert

Location: just north of Cambridge

Thanks very much, both.

Ian - are your width measurements internal or external?

Robert - I should have specified door FRAMES appear to be identical. I agree with your comment on the overlap of the door skins.

Please keep the information coming!

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E" not a "T".

Martin,
As per Ian's, the dimensions on my AD, which has an original body are:
58 7/8" external to front moulding
40 3/4" external
40 1/4" external

Hope these assist...or perhaps confuse!

Chris

Location: Melton Mowbray

Hi Martin on the back edge of the moulding that holds the back of the hood down i.e. The outside rearmost part of the tub forward to the top of the dash inside the car. Other two measurements are extreme outside panel to panel at the top of the tub. Ian

Location: Bristol

I believe that the AD body had a significant structural revamp when going from Short steel rad to taller Nickel plated rad, the doors were also changed at this time. I have one of the later body's if this is the type you need dimensions from. I don't know why Austin retained the AD designation, one would have thought there were enough changes to re classify.

Location: NZ

The AE body is mine. But, and unlike my RL is not marked as such. There is a number, but no letters.

Like Ian, I have noticed much diference in what are described as AD's since I have been looking. The later cars with the Nippy/ulster style rad certainly have a different scuttle to the earlier cowled cars. Some described as AD's have the scuttle ventilators.

When touting my body about for repair, the feedback I got was if it has ventilators, circular pressings in the rear floor and doors that overlap (as mine does) then it is an AE. The AD's have a t shaped bead around the doors and no ventilators.

Is there some sort of late AD with some of the AE features. Much like the later transitional RN's RP's?

My own July 1928 AD Tourer (beaded doors and no ventilators):



My father's July 1929 AD Tourer (flush doors and ventilators):



A friends 1930 AE Tourer:



Rear view shows the extra width in this model best:



Dan Burts AE Tourer:



Another AE Tourer with the unusual wings used only for a very short time:

Hedd,

can you post photos of the rear and side views of the body you have (on the car!)?

Hi Hedd, my 28 Chummy had the circular pressings in the floor (doesn't have them now because I couldn't do it when I made the new floor pan)
Lots of people haven't noticed that 28 ADs have two different positions for the bottom door hinge, the reason being that the floor pan had lots of changes ( the circular pressings being one) the floorpan side members that have the four lightening holes down by the accelerator nessesitated moving the bottom hinge up about an inch and a half to clear the extra height in relation to the earlier floor pan that was much lower with no lightening holes.
Another change at the same time was that the riser panel for the back seat is in one piece(each side of the tunnel)and was independent of the floor under the back seat, previously the riser was in two pieces the top one incorporating the floor panels.
At the same time the little boxes in the floor to clear the axle changed to long tapers where they meet the inner wings.
The front seat box that goes across the car also changed into a one piece affair rather than made up of small parts as before.
Memory is fading a little as I made my Chummy floor pan in 76 and for my Fabric Saloon in 71, but I'm fairly sure the the Chummy main floor panels and the transmission tunnel were three separate panels, where as the Fabric had the floors and tunnel folded out of one large piece. Apoliges if this is doing your head in.

Location: Bristol

From the photographs I have of 25 1928-1929 Coil engine taller Rad AD type tourers, the majority have scuttle ventilators, and those without are all 1928, though some of the '28 cars do have scuttle vents and chassis numbers with and without seem to overlap, so unclear whether they are all as they left the factory. The change is probably in the index cards? I think the wider body and overlapping doors are the best bet for identifying an AE body.

Location: New Forest

There are quite a few photos of my (ex) 1929 Chummy here.

Location: Buxted

Hi Martin,
My AE (Aug 1930) is the following
Length 5ft from dash too lip

Following are o/s measurements
2'11 6/8 at dash
3'7 5/8" at strike post
3'8 1/2" at hood pivot point
3'7 1/2" at hood rest


Bryan

Location: Whangarei New Zealand

This is an interesting topic and couldn't resist getting out my tape measure and notebook to compare. I have an early 27 AD chummy body ,truncated just beyond the rear seats Body no in the 38,000s ,a 28 floorpan complete in the 48,000 nos -this has the circular pressings in the floor.
I have also my late '28 R saloon to go by and a notebook with measurements from a number of other cars.
My findings are:

1/ All pre 1929 cars AC-AD have the same basic floor pan dimensions-They all measure same front to back at floor level. They also measure the same to the widest part in front of the rear wings. The floor Plan has the same curve along the sides also.

2/ All chummys from AC to AD measure 57-58" from the instrument board to the rear hoop of the body - outside.

3/ they also all measure around 40"-40-1/2 " across the door openings externally.

4/The circular pressings came into use in early 1928 and are present in My November 28 R Top Hat saloon- Which measures 44-1/2" across the door openings at the widest point (4" wider than the Chummy at that time). Tapered wooden strips Top and bottom of the side pressings gave the body greater width at this point on the saloons
The length of the R body from instrument board to rear of back seat is 58"-same as chummy.

5/ The shape of the rear of the floor pan beneath the rear seat was semi-circular or rounded on the AC body but the length from from of rear seat support panel to the back of body is the same on the AC,AD and AE.
The AD floorpan was squared off in this area and smaller radius at the extreme corners and more so on the AE. This made the AD and AD look squarer at the back and the top profile of the waistline was squarer also and wider at the rear.

6/ The seat frame sections are essentially the same width and construction. AC chummy doors had the hinges wider apart.

7/ All Instrument boards are the same width 33-1/2" and depth 7-1/2" and the scuttle is also the same length 13-1/2" AC-AD,AE .

I must thank Bill Sheehan (Aus) and John Barker (Nelson NZ) for their fine Plans and sketches they have supplied to help with these measurements and comparisons

Location: Wellington NZ

Very many thanks to everyone, so far. Please keep it coming.

I shall try to collate all the information and - if Photobucket will co-operate - post the results and some photos later on.

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E" not a "T".

Not a lot of help for Martin, as he has the body, but useful for reference.

I have no pictures of the car in one piece. Dad bought it in the mid 1990's in pieces. I have never seen it assembled.













The hood supports are different on the AE to the AD, they are funny little pressings. I found them in a tin eventually. They are in the picture of the pile of bits on the floor.

There is also a picture of my front wings. They are the last type I believe with the rib on the edge. The fronts are identical to my RL.

Oddly the dashboard has no hole for an oil button. But the dash is oddly clean and free from repair. Whereas the rest of the body has had some work. It is surprisingly solid, but rough with it. I suspect the dash may not belong. Its previous owner from Abergele also had two John Heath van bodies (for LWB chassis), I wonder if the dash we got is actually off one of those.

Hi Hedd re the dash, looking at the shape of the bottom moulding flattish rather than half round it might be one of the repros made in the 70s. Have a look at the bottom of the glove boxes, if memory is correct originals have a shallow pressing to add strength as they were quite thin gauge metal. Also no holes for oil button and patent plate may support this.Cheers Ian

Location: Bristol

Having built new floor pans for most models in the past, I was always fascinated by the subtle changes made from one model year to the next. It's generally recognised that the vintage Chummys got bigger and taller, but did you realise that the cockpit length remained much the same? This is hard to imagine when we know that the '23 was much smaller than say a '30, but there's a simple answer. The AC (mid-'24) was 2" longer than the AB ('23), but it was only so in the floor length - in fact only the rear floor was different. But if you are reminded that the AC scuttle in round figures was 14" long and the AB had only been (again round figures) 12" long, then the length of the cockpit from instrument board to rear of tub was the same. Except for gradually getting the gunwale higher and the width broader, people who say they have more leg room etc in the later versions have a lot of imagination! End of today's useless trivia. Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

DAVID - -it's too long ago to remember accurately, but I don't recall the reinforcing plate applicable to Pramhoods. Perhaps the mod started later? Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Bill Those AD's I have owned and examined certainly have the captive nuts as have two Ulsters I have examined, makes the rev counter and speedo fixing so much easier!

David - I'm sure you are correct, but were any of those Pram Hoods? Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Two were, with AC bodies, one had a replacement dashboard and the other was when I was 18 and I cant remember whether it had captive nuts or not, on its original dash. So I'm afraid I can't answer your question.

I don't think my 1928 Chummy has captive nuts for the two switch panel screws but I believe the Speedometer does.

From memory the 1929 Saloon is similar.

I will have to check to confirm but I seem to remember having great trouble getting the switch panel nuts to stay in place.

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia

My RK switch panel had 1" plus long screws (to ease assembly perhaps?)probably not original. The warning light has captive nuts (so you don't have to remove the whole panel to change the bulb?)

Location: Stratford upon Avon

My 1929 Fabric Saloon has captive nuts for the Speedo, but not for the switch panel. Also, the right hand side of the dash has a bulge in it at the top edge to allow the vacuum hose to pass through to the windscreen wiper.

As said earlier, there is a shallow recess pressed into the pockets for rigidity as the steel is really very thin.

Peter

I have an original R Saloon dash that has no nut plates at all, my 28 Chummy has nut plates on the speedo only and my 29 Fabric Saloon has nutplates on speedo only.
That was a strange situation at the time as it is just as difficult to get the nuts on the switch panel as it would have been on the speedo, odd they didn't think to put them on both. Ian

Location: Bristol

Perhaps it is all down to the way the production line worked, if you watch surviving film many pre made sub assemblies were picked from boxes and then fitted to the cars. It is probably simply that for some reason the switch panel was fitted off the car, and speedo once the dash was on the car. I have no conclusive proof of this, it just strikes me as a probable reason.

Location: NZ

Just checked the 1928 Chummy- no captive nuts on the switch panel screws - and it needs some work so out it comes.

Now I remember- I had to take the speedometer out to access the LH nut !

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Malvern, Victoria, Australia

Looking at photo of the back of the dash on my '30 AE nut plates are usedfor speedo and oil gauges, the switch unit is nut and bolt.

Bryan

Location: Whangarei New Zealand