Here we go again!

Person begins thread claiming anecdotal interest into a (Welsh) language issue.

"I'm not a Welsh speaker....

Despite this, they still insist on letting you know (for some odd reason) that they have a firm and forthright opinion, which (you've guessed it) borders on the hostile.

....and speaking personally - don't ever want to be"

Person gets rather polite replies bearing in mind the relatively condescending tone of the original thread.

Person doesn't like replies so gets all uppity (which is rather strange if they genuinely have no real interest in aforementioned topic....)

Person then accuses respondents of bigotry/insularity/zealotry (delete as appropriate).

And then we'll go through it all again in about a months time.

Karl. I think we can talk about "home language" in this context. Much is made of the "revival" of Welsh based on an increase in the number of people saying they speak or understand the language. I'm not entirely convinced the language is enjoying a true renaissance because it is unclear to me to what extent the new speakers make significant use of their language. For instance, in Ireland, well over a third of the population claim they speak Irish. Yet Irisih is used by far fewer people than in Wales as their main language of conversation at home, in the community or in work. It is a language that you learn in school and state you can speak for political reasons.

I'm not saying this is the case for Welsh but I'm not convinced that it isn't the case either. Theres too much focus on the number of people speaking Welsh and too little on the actual use of Welsh as a community language or as an 'everyday' language as opposed to something you learn in school and can speak if you need to but do so irregularly. I have many friends who went to Welsh school and now never speak it and who have seen a decline in their ablity to use it (although it remains much better than mine). These people would probably still claim they speak Welsh and when they have kids they may even make sure their kids speak it. But its unlikely to be the main language of their children's home.

A good thing to do would be to stand in Queen Street and listen to the language of conversation of people walking past. Probably a fairly good indicator of the relative numbers of English and Welsh first language speakers in Cardiff and the environs.

Random Comment - I know what you are saying but I don't think it's at all straight forward.

I can only speak anecdotally but I think it would be very difficult in all but the most 'Welsh' of places to conduct the majority of your conversations in Welsh. As an example you meet someone you speak in English because you know they will speak in English whereas you address them in Welsh and you take pot luck. Once the initial form of communication is established quite a lot of Welsh speakers find it difficult to switch.

Friends of mine are both first language Welsh speakers (ie it was the main language of the home)who met in Cardiff, spoke English to each other and didn't know the other was Welsh speaking for about 2 months. When they spoke in Welsh they said it was like meeting all over again, but in a bad way ie. awkward etc so they continued to converse in English. Until they had a child and now they speak mostly in Welsh to each other and the baby. It's odd and I don't really understand it but thats why it's really not something that is capable of pinpointing with any degree of accuracy.

The WLB have done a survey (its on their website)about usage of Welsh for those who consider themselves fluent and those who have learnt it as a second language and for all area's of Wales. It's interesting and it clearly shows that Welsh is used regularly although usage in work and formal situations is low across the board. And that to me gives us a clue as to why people always show suprise by the amount of people who claim to speak Welsh - because unless they know those people, go to their homes or even speak Welsh themselves they may never know that they speak anything other than English.

I don't claim to know any answers but just from my own experience I think that home usage of Welsh is a moveable feast - just another quick anecdote. The wife and kids went to west Wales for a few days without me (non Welsh speaker). They stayed on a farm where the owner spoke Welsh and in the town quite a lot of Welsh was heard. They spoke Welsh to each other for all of the time they were there (2 days) which would have been unheard of in Cardiff. The obvious reason was my absence but that doesn't fully explain it - the kids said that speaking Welsh made them feel like theY fitted in whereas in Cardiff, outside of school, it made then stand out in a not altogether positive way.

when Arsene Wenger and Gerrard Houliier first met in the tunnel at Anfield they conversed to each other in English. Even though they knew both were french.

when asked why they said its just a natural way of doing things.

i'm pretty sure that our welsh speakers on here, and there are a few, chop and change their welsh to english depending on the audience. its a gift, one which i'm qauite jealous of really. the wife does it when we are in Europe, French and German being her fluency with Spanish and Polish also figuring quite highly as well. it always amazes me.

I'm sorry if this is cheeky - but every time I see the little flag by "Roath Basin" I think there's some news about the development - but no, it's still people having a row about Welsh. I'm all for a bit of random here and there, but any chance we could take it to its own thread?

I cycled past the BBC site on the weekend and noticed that part of the main body of the new bridge has been assembled and is lying on the site to be winched into place at some later date.

Quite a bit of groundwork has been carried out over there. You can get a reasonably good view if you walk past because the perimeter is a metal cage type fence rather than wooden hoardings (ie you can see through them).

Bridge has been lowered into place tonight, they also have a boreing machine doing some work as well, another building on the way?

Does this mean the main vehicular entrance to the BBC site is past the Norwegian Church? or is this just a back-up or pedestrian route.
I can't imagine large HGV's delivering scenery using this route. Spoil the whole feel of that area.

I'm fairly sure the main vehicle entrance is at the other end of the site where the entrance to the docks is. There's a newish roundabout there after you go over the bridge; one of the exits leads to the new dock entrance, the other leads onto the BBC site.

The Main entrance to the site will be the existing entrance to the Docks. The new bridge will only be for public transport and emergency vehicles. It will also be used should the swing bridge need repairs.

I haven't been to see it yet but the pictures we get on here do seem a bit warehousey. I hope I'm wrong!

You're not wrong.

Large TV studios are basically warehouses so this shouldnt come as a surprise. At least ours has a fancy front slapped on it (eventhough it doesnt seem high anough along its length to cover all views of the warehouse roof behind)

I think they'll look okay, and they'll be interesting. They will be better than the docks sheds we've been staring at for god knows how many years anyway, although I do quite like the boldness of the dark blue 'Port of Cardiff' lettering that presumably will now be obscured.

Essentially they are just factories for drama productions, and the buildings need to be utilitarian really. Personally I think they'll be instantly recognisable and within a few years very iconic at a UK level.

I can't wait to see it open anyway.

When the development is finished it will be hidden behind the new Digital Media Centre which is to be built along the waterside. The buildings are going to be 6 storeys high which will obscure the majority of the BBC Village.

Are the actual red bits up yet? I didn't think they were, but if they are then I'll take a photo later and upload it soon.

Only the metal span of the bridge were in place, the functional parts and decorative parts were not there yet.

Uploaded some pics from tonight on skyscrapercity

could we have the link for the above ?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=335290&page=119

The information was given out at a meeting between Igloo, wag, Cardiff Council for residents of adventurers quay this week.

Media centre is about to go to planning. There are 2 buildings both a 6 storeys. The hope to start by autumn 2011

The NIMBY element of the residents must have gone bananas. They were spitting blood at the initial presentation given by Igloo late last year. This phase 2 revelation must have got the blood rushing to their heads. Did any ambulances need to be called?

The traffic! The lights! The noise! The shadows! The wind! The change! The voices in our heads!

So I can expect a petitioner knocking on my door any day soon. I'm at a loose end tonight, I'll get the hot tar and feathers ready.

Good news, to be honest there is a huge amount of traffic coming from there at rush hour, once its all built it should be significantly less.

had a little look at this earlier today...had to say from outside 3 Assembly Square it does not look too bad, not at all as garish as I was expecting. It should look good as a backdrop to the couple of mid rises planned already.

I did not see the bridge due to being in the car.

early days, but better than i thought

I drove past the deli the other day. Looked great and pretty busy.

I really hope it thrives, not least because it will be a constant reminder to the councillors and general nimby imbeciles about how stupid they are.

The proposed digital media centre in Porth Teiger;

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-news/2011/02/14/bay-site-would-house-city-s-creative-industries-91466-28164283/

Looks a bit like a 1960's Eastern European social housing project, only the side looks interesting.

That doesn't look great but I'd like to see more before making a fully informed judgement. To be honest I don't think we should be expecting miracles there.

It's good that there seems to be a fair bit of interest in it though, occupants wise.

I'd like to see more angles. It could be really good, if there is a stong concept. This image doesn't show the frontage over looking the dock or much of the frontage overlooking the walkway outside the BBC studios, which I imagine would be the parts with the most thought in their design. What we see here might be facing another building within a few years?

Is it facing Penarth Marina ?

I kind of like it. Is it making use of the same materials as No 3 Assembly Square perhaps ?

You can see the bumpy outline for the front of the bbc drama-village to the right of the pic, so that shows the orientation. I assume it's also there because the designs are meant to relate to each other, also with the use of wood.

I wonder what the depth of the building is? Not easy to tell from this pic.

I dont think it will be very deep at all. There have been lots of master plans for the area from Igloo, but most of them have involved multiple buildings each that run from the dock to the main road in front of the BBC drama centre (to the right of the pic) but without much depth. There have tended to be lots of oblong, triangular and 'L' shaped buildings, and the above could be read as that.

I could be wrong of course.

I've just been down there to take a look this afternoon. There's certainly plenty of space on the site. I'd be interested to know what they are going to do regards access and transport.

I'd like to see more detailed designs but I actually think it looks quite cool, not sure why just something about it

Grey brick, as the side fo a building it wont be too bad, bad it looks like the main entrance is here (with access over the bridge just to the left of the pic i imagine). Hopefully there will be a large glazed section facing teh dock and from the look something a bit more avant garde facing the bbc studios.

It still reminds me of No.3 Assembly Square across the road in terms of materials (which is a guess based on the colours)

Looks like they have started putting the metal fram on that will hold the wooden (?) extravagant sections. The blue is definately noticable too!

Looks like the metal parts of the bridge are on site, they look alot fatter and wider than i expected.

Latest pic showing the frame starting to go onto the BBC production studios.

They're putting the bridge together for the access to the development. Grabbed a couple of photos this evening - liked that the lock keepers cottage looks like it's growing arms :-)





Also grabbed a couple of the whole development: