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I think the quoted figure for a 6N game is around £10 million.
I would expect a champions league final to easily dwarf this for many reasons.
For instance, 6N games involve Wales, and I assume a great deal of home fans don't stay in hotels in the city, perhaps wouldn't eat out or stay the weekend. So the revenue would mainly derive from beer sales and pink cowboy hats (that's if Jantra hasn't burnt them all first).
For a champions league final, assuming it's not Cardiff City vs Swansea City, I would imagine a great deal of fans would stay at least one night, with many perhaps making a weekend of it and staying for several.
Having said that, I wonder how full the bars would be with supporters that don't have tickets? For Wales games, even with the stadium full, there are probably just as many people watching in the bars around town. I would assume that such a huge event, particularly if it were to involve a 'home' team (ie, Man Utd, Chelsea etc) would attract a large contingent of fans without tickets, but if it were say an all Spanish affair, would the bars be as full?
Edit. Just found this,
http://www.football-marketing.com/2011/05/28/uefa-champions-league-final-will-be-the-richest-ever/
For 2011, the Champions League final was worth 52 million euros to London....
BBC article
apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere. If this article is correct - and given it is the BBC there must be some element of truth - then it would seem as if this topic is very much on the agenda.
What I was surprised to learn is that just a bit more than 2k watched a blues game in February. given that around 74k what Wales play, and we are a rugby loving nation, you can only assume the other 72k must have been stuck in the queue for tickets
all joking aside, i think its time the Blues went back before its too late. Regional rugby has not really worked in Wales and after the initial boost to support has tailed off somewhat.
perhaps a wider debate about whether regionalism should continue should be raised. i just don't think Wales has the base support for 4 professional teams that an compete at the level required of nations such as France and England
I think the best thing for the blues is to forget about the arms park altogether. The sooner it is redeveloped the better for them.
If ninian park was still there plenty of deluded city fans would be clamouring for a return there I'm sure.
They do however need to make some huge changes to be a success.
They need a total rebranding, removal of the cardiff name and be set up as a club genuinely representing cardiff AND the valleys. Run busses from the valleys to their games and perhaps play the odd token game in pontypridd
The trouble with Cardiff Blues move is they moved into too big a stadium for there support. Cardiff Arms park i believe has a capacity of 16500 and with say 12000 supporters in feels pretty full. but 12000 in a 27000 seater stadium feels empty. Atmosphere drops. And 12000 would of only been the attendance if none of the fans were alienated from the move.
To make any professional sport a success you need several things. The most important long term is promotion.
If you take a look at football promotion it is everywhere, it's part of everyone's life's no matter what you do you can't get away from it. Those that embrace it get blinkered by it.
But most other sports don't have anyway near that amount of promotion. If you take out F1 maybe wimbledon and the olympics this year then added up the promotion of all the other sports in the uk outside of football there promotions probably still don't add up to what football has in that same amount of time.
Next up is facility's. Stadium's need to have capacity's they can fill, where fans can sit and feel like there involved with the game not a separate onlooker. Plenty of leg room and feeling comfy. In Ice hockey. I find there is a massive diffrence in the quality of facility's and stadia. Go to nottingham and you have a stadium that is first class 7500 seats and a double ice pad. There attendances are great. But some stadiums have bad view's even concreate pillars built 5 rows back in the stands and capacity's of 2k or less. Even in football if you look at the grounds in the 1980's stadiums were empty and it was all about cheap tickets so hooligans could go and have a fight on the terracing. But with the way the sport is promoted that quickly changed.
I definately miss Ninian Park. Queuing up for the turnstiles at the back of the Canton stand, and coming out onto the small corner forecourt to see the Bob Bank terrace out before you. Walk along the bottom, and not uncommon to get a few shouts from people you knew. Stand near the Grange End for atmosphere and watch it fill up at 2.55, as everyone necks their pints.
Loved Ninian Park. It's part of the reason I so enjoy still going to the Arms Park.
In terms of Cardiff Blues going back to CAP, it really is a no-brainer. Of course they should its their home. End of.
I really cannot follow the logic of those who say they have not really given the regional thing a bash, they have actively alienated the core support in the hope that the VC's will embrace it, it hasn't happened and never will happen. Cardiff Blues (please not just the Blues) are in all reality the 1st XV of CRFC, at the beginning of the 'regional' shake up they fought and paid to stand alone.
Colour Wolf - they play as and in Cardiff because they are Cardiff. Regional Rugby is not regional.
Sorry that is absolute gash.
regional Rugby ill planned by welsh rugby authorities across the board and blues poorly run from the board. a 20 year lease on a stadium you make no money in is mad. sack the board.
I'm not saying reginal rugby will never work in wales, but if it does work i think it's gonna take time. Ponty and bridgend clubs only a few years ago were competing with cardiff in there own right. then the fans are force fed reginal rugby! Why? Sometimes if it's not broke don't fix it. And in this case i think it was always gonna be hard to make fans change there allegiance but it's not just that fans like to be local they don't want to travel 20 miles on the train/bus after a relaxing/social/thrilling/fun saterday or sunday afternoon watching there team. Ok there is a designated driver so you can have a few beer's but not everyone has mates local that share there support of a particular sport and team.
we had regional rugby history only they chose to ignore it generally. Cardiff, Swansea and Newport the size they are should all have been able to host a top tier rugby team, llanelli also. For touring sides they often played Neath and Aberavon Combined, the variious Gwent clubs combined and thats the approach we should have looked at intitally. Looked at history and built on that.
you may or may not be aware of valleys rugby, and good luck to them... http://www.valleysrugby.com/
I heard last night that the WRU are still looking to buy the Arms Park..they have been trying to buy it for the last 18 months. Their plan is to redevelop the stadium and the area...one criteria will be to ensure it meets UEFA needs what ever they are but it sounds very positive from a Cardiff Blues perspective if these plans come off. Apparently there is likely to be some good will also in relation to the contract with Cardiff City as well.
How realistic are the WRU's plans? I know that they have been successful in restructuring their debt since Roger Lewis took over and appear to be on a decent financial footing but they are still in debt to the tune of many millions. Also how would a huge purchase like that go down with the grass roots especially given the parlous financial state of the regions? After all the WRU is there to look after the game first and foremost.
How feasible is it for them to buy CAP and the surrounding area? If the Blues are to get goodwill from CCFC to break their contract does this mean that PMG are sniffing around the CAP site? How big is the site and realistically what type of development and how much development could go there if CAP is to remain and even be extended?
I'd like to know more about these discussions. Discussions have taken place for as long as I can remember and nothing has happened. I'm not convinced that this is anything other than idle speculation although I'd love to be proven wrong.
Obviously I am not party to the discussion but the information actually came from the Chairman of the WRU.
Sorry Alun. The questions in my post were rhetorical - I wasn't expecting you to be able to come up with the answers! I'd love to see CAP plus the approaches to the Milstad from Westgate street redeveloped. I hope something does happen soon although at the moment it seems that nothing in Cardiff happens very quickly when it comes to development!
And Jantra it wasn't too long ago cardiff City were struggling financially but I don't think anyone on here was spiteful towards them as your are towards Cardiff Blues. Personally I think Cardiff needs both a great rugby team and a great football team. This will both help the profile of the city and help it economically. I would much prefer to see people helping each other.
In terms of space, the key bit is basically the open car park just to the North of the North Stand at Cardiff Arms Park.
There is about 25m there between the stand and the bowls court (which could also do with going really)
That car park is either superfluous or (more likely) should be tucked underneath a new North stand at C.A.P. That would allow a South stand to be brought North, and a new North stand to be built at the Millennium Stadium, with all the requisite hospitality needs contained underneath.
There is also a decent gap between the west stand at C.A.P and the river, and this stand contains some executive boxes but no seats. Perfectly feasible to fit in around 2,000 seats, or a small terrace here, again with executive boxes that overlook both the rugby ground and the river.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that there is more than enough space to develop a circa 15,000 capacity rugby ground, provide new hospitality and finish off the North Stand of the Millennium Stadium.
This doesn't even touch the empty space outside the Westgate Street entrance, which surely could serve as a large conference hall of some kind. By my reckoning, there must be a good 5,000-7,500sq m of space here, which might be ideal for a conference facility.
How to pay for it all is another thing..but it's clear that the options are there, and if done well it could substantially increase the WRU's assets and revenue opportunities.
In terms of space, the key bit is basically the open car park just to the North of the North Stand at Cardiff Arms Park.
There is about 25m there between the stand and the bowls court (which could also do with going really)
That car park is either superfluous or (more likely) should be tucked underneath a new North stand at C.A.P. That would allow the pitch and the South stand to be brought north, and a new North stand to be built at the Millennium Stadium, with all the requisite hospitality needs contained underneath.
There is also a decent gap between the west stand at C.A.P and the river, and this stand contains some executive boxes but no seats. Perfectly feasible to fit in around 2,000 seats, or a small terrace here, again with executive boxes that overlook both the rugby ground and the river.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that there is more than enough space to develop a circa 12-15,000 capacity rugby ground, provide new hospitality and finish off the North Stand of the Millennium Stadium.
This doesn't even touch the empty space outside the Westgate Street entrance, which surely could serve as a large conference hall of some kind. By my reckoning, there must be a good 5,000-7,500sq m of space here, which might be ideal for a conference facility.
How to pay for it all is another thing..but it's clear that the options are there, and if done well it could substantially increase the WRU's assets and revenue opportunities.
Hi Karl
No worries....from what David Pickering was saying last night he would like to develop all the area around the stadium but as you say things move slowly and require money. The WRU finances are now in a good state from what he said and it seems its definitely on his agenda...but as you say time will tell.
Looks like things are finally on the move, or at least a major reshuffle of what is currently the case;
http://m.walesonline.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/walesol/sj3wTMALSr5De3RtcOrYA_w/view.m?id=4456017&tid=638956&cat=Rugby_News
Also heard this
WRU looking to take ownership of the Arms Park and they plan to demolish it…………… then finish the Millennium Stadium. They'll also turn the Arms Park pitch 90 degrees, build new stands both sides, with the stand on the Taff side being integrated with new apartments over looking the river (the sale of which will go towards the cost of the development).
I would have thought that if there were any plans to knock down the current arms park anytime soon then they would have stayed at the CCFC stadium until it was complete.
But isn't the big story in that link the CCFC playing in red thing? Sounds like it should be some kind of wind-up. Is it not? Maybe this is for a different thread...
ccfc playing in red = wind up from Steve Day
I've just been listening the Blues Chief Executive on Radio Wales who three times thanked Cardiff City for their "understanding and genorosity". When asked whether CCFC could have forced the Blues to stay at the Stadium he indicated that that was the case but refused to give any details of the financial settlement.
As for the WRU redeveloping the Arms Park - it's sounds a likely scenario to me - although its probably a few years down the line. I would imagine that the Blues would look to the Brewery Field or a groundshare at Rodney Parade whiile the development took place.
Yes, it's time for a complete top to toe rebranding. And what better way to give the coalition a good symbolic kicking than to change the colours of the City's football team. Henceforth, the team shall be known as "the redbirds".If that doesn't send a powerful message to Cameron & Clegg then quite frankly I don't know what will.
I've looked through a list of birds which are red, and it looks like the faithful will be able to whittle down the new teamname to one of the following:
Red Bird list
The clear front runners are surely going to be either the Avadavats or the Pyrrhuloxias.
What do YOU think?
there were rumours that it was a rumour started by Steve Day, sadly not.
still, the investment is to be welcomed and its only a shirt colour
its a done deal now so lets just move forward together
To be fair, CCFC are not changing their shirt colour - they will just be using their blue shirts for Away matches.
Another case of Soccer following Rugby...??
The redevelopment of CAP and by definition the Mill Stad is, I would have thought, a long way off, so there is time to look at options.
For now it is enough that Cardiff are back home and a rather important ground in the history of the sport is being fittingly used again.
More news on the potential redevelopment
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/05/25/cardiff-arms-park-redevelopment-to-be-considered-by-wru-91466-31041556/
Nothing to see here, move on.
This story is mostly about props at the Blues:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/cardiff-blues/2012/10/08/91466-31993067/
But I thought this line was interesting...
"following the move back to the Arms Park, season tickets are 60 per cent up, people are coming through the gates, the commercial revenues are up and our sponsorship and hospitality targets have been achieved."
that may be true but at least now most people are paying (at least something). must have been 100 free tickets given away for every paying spectator at the ccs...
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