Bill, I hope it didn't come across that I was saying Aspendale wasn't the first track purpose built for motor racing, as I definitely was not and believe this is correct. I also hope that it is clear I have no intentions of putting Aspendale down at all, its part in history is unquestionably important regardless of it's surface. It was the first example of someone (James Robert Crooke) believing enough in the sport to finance and construct a track solely for that purpose (I have seen £1500 or £1700 reported for the gravel track in 1906). The significance of this is undeniable and all credit to the man. My response was only to try to bring some reason for the poorly worded claims for Brooklands and pointing out the differences to earlier tracks is the only way to confirm the significance of its creation as a point in the history of motor racing.

For completeness I will try and include some of what I have read and muse over what connection there may or may not be between the two following on from your thoughts around Selwyn Edge. This is purely for anyone interested to have a think about and form there own views, it should not be considered as a a factual account of this part of history, and I hope Bill, you will be able to provide some information I have not seen to help everyone learn more about these early tracks.

My understanding from reports is that Aspendale originally had a white gravel track for motorcycle races laid around 1903 inside the horse track. Car races were however conducted on the horse track from 1904. In 1905 work was carried out to lay a new track on top of the motorcycle track to suit Automobile racing (This could be another reason for Brooklands claim if they believe Aspendale was a converted motorcycle track, I am not really convinced as reports say laid on top). This was with crushed white Gravel steamrollered to help stabilise the surface. The first meeting on this new track was 29th January 1906, and the only photograph I have seen of this race shows an exit of a curve and it appears to be a flat or very mildly banked surface. Despite what can be read on Wikipedia I have read of a second meeting at Aspendale (Wiki quoting one only). A meeting on 7th and 9th November 1906 (Postponed from 5th & 7th), which is reported as then being a banked track the extent of this banking is unclear, but I have seen reports that the banking was gradually built up over the subsequent years, and a photograph reputedly of cars on the banking in 1920 (The year before the Paved surface was made in 1921, though some quote 1924) show a more pronounced banking, but still mild in comparison. I have not found evidence of further meetings in 1906 and with many sources claiming only one it seems plausible that meetings were not in abundance. If there were in fact no meetings, then between January and November it is plausible that this time was used to build up more of a banking to help increase speeds. I would expect that with the relatively short 1 mile track (Brooklands was around 2.75 miles) in January 1906 the turns would have proved to require a much steeper banking to take at high speed, Possibly leading to further attempts to make the banking steeper from then on. The track was paved in 1921 (Some say 1st meeting Feb 1924). Reports vary over the extent of the banking and achievable speeds for the paved surface some quoting 90mph, and others over 100mph.

Brooklands was constructed as a racing track, but also as a means for high speed testing to aid the British motor industry with speeds of 120MPH the aim. The banking was designed with these high speeds in mind and the paved surface a necessity for this.

"It may be of interest that one of the consultants Locke King used to ascertain safe track width , degree of banking etc, was Selwyn Edge, an Australian. I'd suggest we can guess from where Edge got his expertise, even if only by correspondence!"

I'm sorry Bill but I cannot follow this line of thought. for those who may not be acquainted, Selwyn Edge, although born in Australia lived in the UK from age 3. Although he sold and raced cars and would eventually buy a controlling share of AC, he was not an engineer and I feel his input was probably more to do with how a car handles at Speed on different surfaces. I don't feel he would have been confident enough to comment on the best banking angle or track width, based on any possible correspondence about Aspendale. Aspendale was in it's infancy at the time that Brooklands was designed and building commenced, possibly only one meeting having been held there. I don't think this was long enough for anyone to gain an expertise in banked circuit design especially when the track was only very shallowly banked if at all at that time. For me, I don't see that Aspendale had an effect on the Design of Brooklands. I believe Aspendale was built with the purpose of racing, and subsequently improved year by year to increase the speeds possible, whereas Brooklands was designed and built with high speed in mind with this bearing the fruits of repeated land speed records being set there.

I hope all of this reads positively. I love hearing about and researching these bits of motoring history. Sorry as well for hijacking the thread.

Location: New Forest

It's only a scam if you part with money and nobody has asked for that.
If they really wanted to scam you they would have tracked you down without an intermediary who didn't actually know you (it's not that hard).
I reckon that it's genuine.

Charles

Thanks for your help Ruiaridh in displaying the photos. Thanks again to Geoff Rogers for his persistence in contacting me and the fantastic Claudia Tucker (who was as charming to meet as she was on the phone)and her husband Garth who spent ages cleaning the cups. A very good day apart from the weather ! James

Location: Very Windy Ferring West Sussex

Edge may well be the connection, as proved by his wholesale copying of the Anzani engine design for AC he was not adverse to taking ideas from elsewhere (to be polite).
Also given his talent for self publicity it would be worth being certain that hs input into the design of Brooklands is corroborated by a third party. As they say success has many fathers but failure is usually an orphan.

Charles