Location: Comber, County Down

Doug, at the risk of turning this thread in the same direction as the Williams Special thread.
Quoting Wiki re. your quotation:

"These were not his (Voltaire's)words, but rather those of Evelyn Beatrice Hall, written under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre in her 1906 biographical book The Friends of Voltaire. Hall intended to summarize in her own words Voltaire's attitude towards Claude Adrien Helvétius and his controversial book De l'esprit, but her first-person expression was mistaken for an actual quotation from Voltaire."

Dave

My grandchildren complain about history saying that there is more of it for them to learn than at the time when I was at school.

Location: Colchester - Autumn Leaves Home for the Bewildered

Simon,

"Remarkably I do have a matching numbers car. Chassis number, car number, both in the ledger and a recognised engine number from a limited series of works XA engines."

I am not sure what matching numbers means but the suggestion that the engine and chassis matches those listed in the original registration documents seems reasonable.

The fact that the chassis and car number are listed and the series of engines is limited is very interesting and likely gives the car a value but not sure if that is 'matching numbers'.

Maybe some cars have engine, chassis, gearbox and body numbers the same, but as noted that doesn't apply to the Austin Seven.

My car is largely unchanged from the original specification in the registration papers which pleases me - but matching numbers - cannot say!

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

Simon or C..O..N..

Show us some pictures and we can all go"YIPEE"

and move on.

U know who U R.

2 years have past since u owned this car and you still will not go public???

But u will.. ***** about all The other TTTTTTTTT'S


Wain Carr

Location: under a rainbow

Ben,

I know that feelings are running high, and I for one would be very keen to learn the truth about the history of these cars. BUT! come on lets not get this thread locked as well.

Simon, how about Bens challenge let us see some facts and pictures, I am sure the genuine enthusiasts will be fascinated and it will silence the doubters.

Cheers

Location: NZ

On early Sevens you can tell if they are matching numbers as all three numbers (chassis, engine and body) are stamped inside the rear crossmember on the nearside. The numbers are prefixed C E and B to avoid confusion.

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Has anyone seen a set of old letter/number punches for sale lately ???

Location: New Forest

Lance and Merv,

Now here is an opportunity - latest edition of The Automobile has a private? advert for

"Early Austin 7 Pram Hood Chummy? on beaded edge, Must be original with 'matching numbers'...."

Out with those punches and Robert's your relative!

Still waiting for a memorable security letter combination, can't make anything from HXV8

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

This same March edition has an article on the Ballot- and here I think we have the correct meaning of matching numbers. Many of the engine parts are stamped with the same number as is the chassis. No mention of the gearbox though.

Vain hope with our Austin Seven

Although the crank sometimes matches - if it hasn't broken

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

Quite right Tony. My 1925 chummy still has it's original engine and the number is stamped on the crankshaft, flywheel and the last three digits are even stamped on the flywheel key. The last four digits of the engine number are also stamped on the gearbox top face where the starter motor fits.

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Lance,

Has it got the engine and chassis number stamped on the chassis?

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

Tony,
Yes it has and the body number. All three are on the inside of the rear crossmember on the nearside and on the offside of the same crossmember you can still see the chassis number stencilled in white paint.

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Lance,

Lovely- I would say that must be what we could safely call a matching number Austin 7
Not many around, I would think.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

The following photos rae from the 1924 AB Tourer I sold last year (to fund an extension, boooo...):

Rear chassis cross member (Chassis 36(5?)71? Engine 3603 Body number obscured):



Rear axle, I was told that the rear axle casing, if original to the car, is a good indication of when the car left the factory, it was fitted towards the end of assembly, anyone able to back this up??:



Block and crankcase:





Gearbox and lid - not sure these ever bore any resemblance to the car/engine/chassis number, happy to proven wrong:



Steering box:



Top of front axle beam was stamped, no photos sorry, chassis number I think. Rods, crank, flywheel all stamped with engine number, no photos sorry, pistons at +020, but undertsnd that original ones would have also had engine number.

Tony,

Yes, thank you. The car had been standing for a very long time when I first bought it and I think it had not done much work. When I rebuilt the engine I found that the bores were standard size with very little lip. It drives very nicely, but if I break the crank then it won't be "matching numbers"!

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Hi Ruairidh,

Yes the back axle on my car is stamped -/10/25. Interestingly, on the inside of the scuttle above the petrol tank is an OK and initials written in chalk or wax crayon, some kind of inspection mark?

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Location: Melton Mowbray

Hi Chris,
Many years ago I bought a spare engine for my Box saloon from a bloke in the next village. He assured me that it had been proffesionally overhauled many years before but had not been used. I removed the head and sump to give it the once over and inside the sump written with a finger of red hermatite was F**CK OFF. Maybe the mechanic was having a bad day.

Location: Stretham, Ely, The fens.

Location: Lands End - UK

During the most interesting discussion about various early Austin Sevens it was stated -

"History is a factual subject and cannot / should not be allowed to be altered."

My late wife's forte was genealogy - family history, which relies on written records which must be cross checked wherever possible- for instance a recent note from the Registrar of Births Deaths and Marriages gave the following advice.
'A grave headstone gave the persons age at death as 54 years. The BDM record record showed 75 years and 40 years married, information given by the eldest son of the person. Further investigation indicated the person was married for 36 years and age at marriage was 35 making him around 71 at death.'

Sorry to be long winded but I think it is important to be very careful when stating categorically a 'known historical fact from written records'

Now I know this doesn't apply to Austin 7's so I will away home

Tony

Location: Melbourne.

Tony,

Agree with your point as errors can creep in.

With historic racing cars I should think that multiple race reports, entry forms and correspondence from the period (Photographs can of course be used in conjunction with written evidence) should be given a little more credence than someone who for example bought a pile of bits and has no evidence of what he started with, never mind the history they are claiming for the pile of bits!

Scott

Location: Cookham Dean

Scott,

Not doubting that but a 'cut in stone' record might be incorrect- race reports and sometimes doctored photographs are possibly unreliable- I am trying to indicate that categorical statements don't make it true either way.
What is done is done. We can and should be aware of the stories if a car comes available - as they do from time to time- witness the twin cam.

Regular hashing over here doesn't seem to resolve much.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.

Ruairidh - Your photos of the '24 are interesting and support comments I made a week or so back (perhaps on another subject), but one question - was the Body number just obscured or perhaps never stamped? Usually if an early Seven was sent out to another bodymaker, there was no number beside the B. We are more aware of this in our Country as so many cars were sent out for the bodies to be made and fitted here. Admit purely academic, as you no longer have the car. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Melbourne, Australia

TonyPress

During the most interesting discussion about various early Austin Sevens it was stated -

"History is a factual subject and cannot / should not be allowed to be altered."

My late wife's forte was genealogy - family history, which relies on written records which must be cross checked wherever possible- for instance a recent note from the Registrar of Births Deaths and Marriages gave the following advice.
'A grave headstone gave the persons age at death as 54 years. The BDM record record showed 75 years and 40 years married, information given by the eldest son of the person. Further investigation indicated the person was married for 36 years and age at marriage was 35 making him around 71 at death.'

Sorry to be long winded but I think it is important to be very careful when stating categorically a 'known historical fact from written records'

Now I know this doesn't apply to Austin 7's so I will away home

Tony

Location: Shropshire

You could be on to something there Bill, it never had a body in my ownership.

It currently sports a rather nice Scoop Scuttle AB body and is complete, very nice to!

Did coach built all have the "Property of AMC" or similar on a plate riveted to chassis?

hi R,i now it`s sad having to sell such an early piece of kit.
but if you still had it,it would be in the shed looking a little sad.
the car looked very happy at guildtown last summer.if not beeming.even in the torencial rain.
so there is a bright side.
tony

Tony B - the reason it sat in Ruairidh's shed for some time was mostly my fault. I took ages to get around to making a new AB body for R, then when finished it sat on a pallet on my back lawn awaiting a crate to be built around it for shipping. Within a few days a storm came up (I look out over the Bay), blew down two and a half large trees and flattened the body and another part-built one next to it. I think it was about then that Ruairidh decided to sell the rolling mechanicals. Of no help to R, but the only good thing that perhaps came out of it is I've repaired some of the salvageable panels (most weren't) and used them in changing my '27 lightweight special into a (very rough) '23 special. It has more small pieces welded together than a 50s Ferrari, but hopefully this won't increase the weight too much! All this explanation in case you were having a dig at R over apparent inaction on his part. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Melbourne, Australia

hi bill,dont worry wasn`t havent a dig.
quite the oposite.
i`m in the same place with some of my own builds.
i have a half built single seater,and an ulster in bits.
with wanting to move house there is the option do i sell and put the money into the new house or do i let the builds take 10 years or more.
there is also tracys chummy wich is being done this year.
so i totaly understand were R is coming from when an extension calls.
its not cheap building 7s now.

Recent car advert.

'Matching numbers car restored in recent years.
Phoenix crankshaft'

Does that mean the new crankshaft has been stamped

Tony.

Location: Melbourne.