I am writing in the hope that someone maybe able to help us trace the history of our Austin Seven?

We have owned HX 2098 for a number of years and have contacted the last 3 registered keepers (all VSCC members) but still very little is known about the car. It was rumoured to have been driven at Silverstone (and rolled) - the body work still shows the scars! Apparently there are photographs of it cornering on three wheels there but we have never seen these! When it arrived with us, we were given a set of yellow 15" racing wheels, a spare four speed gearbox and the original buff logbook which describes it as follows:

Index Mark & No: HX 2098
Taxation Class: Private
Type of Body: 2 Seater Sports
Colour: Black & Red
Propulsion: I.C.E.
Manufactures Name: Austin
Description: B2-5177
Chassis: 122203
Engine No: M.121628
Year of Engine: 1930
Rated H.P: 7-8
Date of Registration: 02/12/1930

The Austin wasn't recorded on the surviving register - so I have recently done this.

The original logbook shows that the Austin has spent the majority of its life on the south coast. However, it was registered in Middlesex and therefore no records exist.

The logbook describes the Austin as a 2 Seater Sports but little of original car survives today. The body has been replaced with a nice replica lightweight aluminium body (in a works TT style) now painted in racing green with a black interior. A distinctive feature is the "sweetheart" seating arrangement rather than the usual "Ulster" seat bolster.

Is there any way of finding out how this Austin actually left the factory? Does anyone have access to these records?

Location: Hampshire

Apparently according to the book I have, the original registration records for HX Middlesex, but only those between the years 1930 and 1933 inclusive, are for some reason held by a Mr. R.G. Westgate, 243 Oakdale Road, Carlton, Nottingham NG4 1AA - all other records for Middlesex are presumed destroyed. This information was no doubt correct when the book was first published in 1991 and one assumes was still valid when the second edition, which is the edition I have, was published in 1998 - the book has since been out of print for many years, so whether Mr Westgate is still living at the above address or indeed is still alive is unknown.

Suggest you drop him a line as the date of your car would be within the small group of records he allegedly has or had. The book unfortunately does not give a telephone number for Mr. Westgate, nor an email address, so you'll have to send him a letter.

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

Jeff - thank you very much for your kind advice.

I will write a letter and if I receive a response I will post the results.

Location: Hampshire

Location: Hampshire

Hi Ollie, your car should be in the surviving ledgers at Gaydon as they cover cars from Chas 77535 to Chas 136924. For a piece of gold they will send you a certificate with all the details when the car left Longbridge.
Interestingly the Association register has Chas 122003 as opposed to your 122203 that is/was a Red Ulster Replica and has a Registration number LS2606 and ‘no’ other details submitted. Could there be a connection (slip of the finger) in some way in the distant past? Ian Moorcraft BA7C

Well, thats the original book judging by the date of the first stamp. So it was certainly a 2 seater new.

Ian,
I shall have to correct you here. Records of Seven chassis at Gaydon are in three tranches.
The second ends at C117126 and the third begins at 127026, thus information on 122203 is lost / missing.

For clarity to other Forum members:
March - June '29 77535 to 97332 inclusive.
April - Oct '30 107228 to 117126 inclusive
Jan to June '31 127026 to 136924 inclusive

Archivist - PWA7C

Location: Melton Mowbray

Hello Chris, I have my copy of the Association register marked up with green page edges and a note on the column with a start and finish Chassis number to help me determine quickly if I get an enquiry from an owner.
I am not sure if I knew that there were gaps in the records, and have forgotten or just assumed that the two surviving ledgers followed on from each other.
It’s strange that when looking up cars for people in the past I have never landed in one of the ‘gaps’ that might have made me look a little closer into what was actually available to view.
It is a shame for Ollie that his car is missing, so near and yet so far.
I stand corrected and will update my Register and my brain, the former will be easy, not so sure of the latter. All the best and thanks for the info Ian M

Location: In a rubber lined room near Bristol

Thank you for your informative posts.

Unfortunately it does seem as though the records for our car have been destroyed - which is very frustrating! Hopefully we will have some luck with the Middlesex registration letter.

Ian - I have just checked the Association Register which is definitely displaying the correct details. To the best of my knowledge, there is no connection between 122203 and 122003!

I am thankful that we have the original logbook and maybe this is all the records would have told us anyway?

However, if anyone recognises the car or knows which body style the Austin would have had originally, we would really appreciate any information.

Many thanks again

Ollie

Location: Hampshire

It's a pleasure Ian. Unlike you, whenever I am asked to investigate cars around that era they normally fall into the gaps!

Location: Melton Mowbray

Chris looks like sods law for you! Two out of my own three chassis are on the Gaydon records, Shame about my Chummy Chas.63712 not being on it.
Just updating my Association Register with your info, and what do I see I have written on the top of the Chas 77535 page: 'See grey mag. 1983C page 20 for lists', and there it is just as you pointed out above. Severe case of brain fade, and in one so young!
Actually in marking out the list I am surprised just how many are missing between 77535 and 136924.
All the best Ian M

Location: In a rubber lined room near Bristol

"Sweetheart" style bodywork

Front page of original logbook

Location: Hampshire

Like the cat flap, must be 20" off the ground.

Joe

Location: Suffolk coast

Still under construction and awaiting decking Joe! However, it's great exercise for two very large cats!

Location: Hampshire

Hence the need for a flight of steps?

Location: Melrose, Scottish Borders

Now that they have their own personal flight of steps and better access to the garage, they spend a lot of time with the Austin. This probably accounts for some of the dents! 'Cat patina?'

Location: Hampshire

A friend kindly forwarded these images from Flickr...







Does anyone know the Austin displaying number 133?

Location: Hampshire

Location: Hampshire

Just a quick update for anyone else trying to trace original registration records; following Jeff Taylor's kind advice, I posted a letter to Mr R.G. Westgate in Nottingham (rumoured to have the December '30 records for Middlesex) but unfortunately we haven't received a response.

Location: Hampshire

I am a little confused. November last Chris Garner noted regarding the Gaydon surviving Austin Seven records -

For clarity to other Forum members:
March - June '29 77535 to 97332 inclusive.
April - Oct '30 107228 to 117126 inclusive
Jan to June '31 127026 to 136924 inclusive

I have a note from Phil Baildon regarding a local Austin Seven with missing chassis number which quotes from the surving records -

CAR no A9 5912, CHASSIS 93245, ENGINE 91969, Built 25.7.29 Date advised 27.7.29

which is after June 1929 - and only to chassis number 93245.

Also I think there is a misunderestanding among some UK experts that all chassis were stamped with their number by the factory. We have ample examples over a number of years to prove that unstamped chassis exist - as noted elsewhere many may have been provided with a painted number but these have usually been lost (painted out) in the intervening 86 years.
My 1929 fabric saloon engine number M 83747 seems to have no number stamped in any of the various locations, and as only the third owner there is no suggestion of it being removed. Unfortunately all local early registrations only required the engine number.

Tony.

Henry,

That is more like it-

March - June '29 77535 to 97332 inclusive.

should read

March– June ‘29 - A8 series - c 77,535 – 87,433
June – Dec. ‘29 -- A9 series - 87,434 – 97,332

Thank you.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Ollie Howard

A friend kindly forwarded these images from Flickr...





Does anyone know the Austin displaying number 133?

Location: Colchester

Thank you very much for your message Matt and please do let me know if you find the programme!

HX 2098 was 'apparently' racing in 1979/80 and number 133 looks remarkably similar to our car - it would be great to confirm this or at least trace another owner.

Location: Hampshire

Matt says the photos were taken at a VSCC Silverstone around 1979/80. VSCC July Silverstone in 1980 was very wet. The photos show it being very wet so, perhaps, that's the event?

Are you a member of the VSCC? If so, an enquiry to the Librarians on a Wednesday would probably lead to an answer to your question as to who was in 133 (Barry Clarke?).

Steve

Edited to add. Page 22 of the Autumn 1980 VSCC Bulletin shows a photo from the July Silverstone including Andy Shepherd's Swallow fronted Special bearing number 135.

Location: North Yorkshire

I am a member of the VSCC and with your help I have tracked down a copy of the Saturday 26th July 1980 Silverstone Race Meeting programme. Car number 133 (1928 Austin Ulster Replica) was driven by P. Champion and therefore is not our car.





Barry Clarke was competing in a supercharged Ulster (maybe the Rolt Ulster) and maybe he should be my next port of call - hopefully he will be at the Beaulieu Autojumble?

Thank you again for everybody's help!

Location: Hampshire

The Rolt Ulster at this date was being driven by Martin Eyre not Barry Clarke and was also normally aspirated. Barry had a very nice black supercharged Ulster with an engine built by Stuart Rolt

Location: Hampshire

Still having no luck with tracing the history but fitted new and very effective LED bulbs

Location: Hampshire

First run out since April Silverstone...

I am still trying to trace the early history of this Austin if anyone can help?

Location: New Forest

This thread has always interested me.

Presumably if the car was registered as a 2 seater 'sports' in 1930, it would be hopeful to assume that the car could be an 'EA Sports'

Does it have any obvious original 'EA Sports' components?, if it did start out as one, it would be very odd if it had retained none.

I see from the chassis register notes that it suggests you still have the original engine? M121628. What is it? There are those more clued up than I but I would suggest that the crankcase would very easily tell you if it was an 'EA' or not.

Another thing, where is the chassis number?, on the chassis rail in the usual place, or on a ali plate on the rear crossmember?.

The original engine crankcase (M121628) unfortunately DOES NOT exist - this is a mistake on the chassis register and needs to be updated / corrected. When I purchased the Austin 7, it was fitted with crankcase M79392 (which we still have). This engine was fitted with a Bentley sized down draught S.U., Jack French Cam, double valve springs etc. It went like hell but was completely worn out. I had a new engine built up by Vince Leek a few years ago using crank case number M128033.

Very little of the original car seems to have survived and nothing is stamped with any obvious EA markings. The chassis number (122203) is stamped on the top of the front chassis rail (next to the engine) and the chassis + car number plates are fixed to the bulkhead - they have obviously been removed from the original body and re-fitted. There are no other identifying numbers on the body. The sports steering rack looks to be original and possible the front bowed axle too. We believe that the car was raced for a number of years and it has obviously been continuously modified.

It would just be interesting to know who modified it and also who built the body?

Location: New Forest

What do the big radius arm holes look like in the front axle? You should be able to tell from them if its a works sports axle or a blacksmithed one

The fact that it is described on the log book as a 'sports' does suggest that it started life as an Ulster as at that time there wasn't another sports model in production. A boat tail would have been classed as a tourer I would imagine. The licensing authorities were more sensible in those days!
The interesting thing about the log book to me is the colour, black and red. That suggests the main part (ie body) is black with red wings. The only factory seven in 1930 with a black body and red wings would be an Ulster as that was one of the few colour schemes available. Also did red body with black wings but I think that would be red and black on the log book.
If it started off as an Ulster there must be some evidence remaining. We will get to the bottom of this!

Good thinking, Hedd, I think a GE Stadium would appear on the log book as a sports. The chassis number and date of registration suggest a build date late in 1930. Was the GE Stadium still available at this time? (This is a question I would like answering for a project I am working on).
The Mulliner Sports was available at this time in black with red wheels and wings. Thats a possibility?

And what 'sports' parts would be expected on something like a Mulliner or GE?. A raked column only?.

Thank you for all of your comments.

I am also sceptical that it left the factory as an EA Sports (even though that would be exciting!) - others feel that it could have been a fabric bodied Mulliner. Please also note that it's 'racing history' is probably recent (possibly in the last 30 years or so by some accounts).

If it helps in any way; I have attached a photo of the N/S axle.

Location: New Forest

That axle is girling

Hedd - that is very interesting to know and thank you again for your help.

We will be at the National Austin Seven Rally (Beaulieu) this year if anyone fancies taking a detailed look!

Location: New Forest

Definitely a later semi Girling front axle.

Am I right in thinking that the EA sport had a special brake pedal? If so its a part which might well have survived rebuilds and a life as a competition car. I'm sure someone will know the details, which I think are in the "How to build an Ulster" book, which I don't have here.

Stuart

Location: Devon

Location: Devon

Checked the brake pedal last night and it looks standard but slightly modified. I couldn't see any part numbers though.

Location: New Forest

Can you see a part number on the steering box casting?

Hope this helps...

Location: New Forest

There doesn't seem to be a part number on the other side.



Even worse,I have just taken a photo of the chassis number stamped on the chassis rail and it's missing a digit! Is this a factory mistake or the wrong chassis?!

Location: New Forest

Ollie,

Of course the two identification plates are modern copies (round corners - the originals had square corners) so don't prove anything, but a 12,000 chassis number would indicate late 1924.

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

I may be wrong here, but the position of the number would not appear to be correct for a 1924 chassis, more likely an incorrectly stamped 1930. However the chassis features should sort this out, also if it were a sports chassis would the rear brake cable guides not differ from std.

Location: NZ