Thanks for that. So the UK government is picking up the majority of the bill to upgrade the Welsh infrastructure.

the benefits of the union

welsh rail infrastructure is not devolved so is responsibility of UK government. On a pro rata basis, welsh rail has been massively underfunded over the last 10 years, but the electrification should redress this imbalance, following which it should be devolved and WG take responsibility for funding.

Genuine question for whoever can answer. My understanding is that at present rail infrastructure projects in England and Wales are chosen on a bang for buck basis, so a big project in London may take up a significant portion of the available budget meaning that infrastructure projects elsewhere do not go ahead/get shelved. The govt decide where the money is spent rather than funds being apportioned equally to the regions. If rail infrastructure is devolved am I to assume that the funding will be in line with population a la the Barnett formula? If so will this be greater or less than the current level of investment? Is this a route to funding the south Wales Metro for example?

Even if a subway system could be economically justified, I don't think it could be built because of the marl that Cardiff sits on. I think that makes it really difficult to construct.

Which areas need a station most in your eyes?

There HAS to be one somewhere between Llanederyn and Pomprennau, that entire area of the city is pretty much cut off.

There is very little chance - I don't think a line has ever been built there so there isn't any old track bed in place, nor even a protected route. The most likely places for stations are on existing lines:
- Crwys Road on the Caerphilly Line
- Tal y Bont on the Pontypridd Line
- Ely Bridge on the City Line

Building extra stations between Cardiff and Newport is difficult because of capacity issues on Great Western Line. If these issues could be overcome, stations may be built (in order of likelihood/importance):
- St Mellons Parkway
- Rumney / Wentloog
- Splott Road
- Capital Quarter (joint station with the Cardiff Bay line)

I think there is also scope to get reinstated track on a line up to Creigau. One problem are houses around Fairwood Close and Kirton Close (some would need to be demolished), and there would be a lot of opposition in the area. If that were built, new stations serving
- Fairwater Leisure Centre
- Waterhall
- Junction 33 Business Park and Park and Ride
- Creigau

With possible extensions to
- Efail Isaf
- Church Village

This would be a good route. It would support the North West expansion and would provide rail access to the large growing housing estates around Church Village if fully extended. To me that makes it worth buying 20 houses.

One route often mooted which doesn't make sense to me is linking Coryton and Radyr to create a city circle line. I just don't see the demand for such a route. Traffic in the city is very much into and out of the centre, and to and from the main business and retail parks, none of which would be served by such a route.

I have wondered about the feasibility of this. As I understand it the second track in each direction runs from Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff. It is a relief track for the main line, so I suppose it does sometimes get used by the existing trains? I wonder how often, and what impact this might have on any metro plan.

I do not know what the exact configuration of the lines is, but as I understand it on the similar doubling of the track between London and Didcot the lines are grouped so that the north two tracks are the east and west running relief lines, while the southern two tracks are the east and west running main line. The main lines allow trains to move at a higher speed than the relief lines.

If the same is true of the track between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction then I imagine this would require either a new platform to be built between the existing tracks, which could be a bit of a squeeze, or a reconfiguration of the tracks, which could be an expensive fiddle. As an example, look on google maps at the Rover Way bridge, which has been suggested as a potential station linking Newport Road and nearby communities to the metro, and try and work out where you would put the platforms running in each direction, and how that might impact on the mail line trains running past them. I'm sure this is solvable, but it might be a bit more complex than we might hope.

Or maybe this isnt a problem at all. Anyone know?

You might enjoy this http://new.wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/integrated/metro/?lang=en

Thanks for the report Mark. I think the frustration on here is that there seems to be a lot of competing ideas out there and no firm plans but hopefully with your involvement a definitive one can be produced. Have you any idea how the initial £62m is going to be allocated?

Just to add, RCT (as are Cardiff and Newport) are members of SEWTA. Important transport proposals are supposed to be co-ordinated, not down to local authorities, so there's no point in shouting at me that it's all down to RCT.

That's the whole point of having an umbrella organisation like SEWTA!

Simon.. I think unfortunately, Ash created a straw man for you. The substance of what he is saying isn't to do with one being in RCT and the other in Cardiff. The substance is that they aren't the same stretch of line.

The Pontyclun to Beddau line would involve re-instating a line that runs between Beddau via Pontyclun and then joins the mainline / Bridgend and Maesteg line.

The Fairwater to Creigau line would split from the city line at Fairwater and then travel via Waterhall and the J33 area to Creigau. It could be extended to Efail Isaf and Church Village (which has a station road) using an existing route. This route would end a couple of miles east of the Pontyclun to Beddau line. It could also be extended towards Cross Inn, and join with the Pontyclun to Beddau line. The NW Corridor study shows this latter extension, but I think its because they have somehow ommitted the line from Creigau to Church Village.

The Fairwater to Creigau line could involve track and stations in both RCT and Cardiff. But they don't involve the same stretch of line and therefore aren't mutually exclusive.

The proposal to reopen the Fairwater - Creigiau line actually itself suggests using two separate stretches of track - the first is the old Efail Isaf to Wenvoe passenger track (on which Creigiau had a station) and secondly the Ceigiau Quarry to Cardiff freight line.

The idea is quite simply to add a branch from the existing Central Station - Radyr 'City Line' through the new "West Cardiff" suburb and up to Creigiau

The problem is south of the M4 the freight lane is almost entirely free from development (apart from a few houses near Kirton Close/Fairwood Close) but north of the M4 a few properties have been constructed. and are now in the way.

On the opposite side, south of the M4 the old passenger line was used to construct the A4232 link road from J33 to Culverhouse Cross, but north of the M4 it is completely undeveloped.

The plan is to use the old freight line path south of the M4 and use the old passenger line north of the M4 - this will create a bit of a dog leg north of Junction 33/South of Capel Llanilltern - but this may actually prove favourable as the plan is to build some sort of Park & Ride facility near J33.

you can't fault a lot of what's written here, its is pretty much updating what's already out there.

I worry though about how its all coming together - how can the same person who wrote the metro report independently then win the tender to evaluate the report by the government, they are surely only going to say one thing.
It beggars belief really.

need an independent view on it all, put some realism in it

The old Taff Vale branch from Waterhall Junction was single track so not sure how this would work in practice.
Note that an alternative proposal is for rail/road bus using the City Line before joining the road at Pwllmelin Road just after Fairwater Station. The difference in levels at this point in considerable and complicated by the bridge at Pwllmelin Road so cannot see this as realistic.

This came up the other day and seemed like quite an interesting idea, also mention's the idea of tram's for part of Newport:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/running-trams-valley-lines-would-6246090

As part of this whole metro project we've got a number of improvements underway already to improve stations throughout the city region on the existing network.

I was walking my dog near Caerphilly station for the first time in a while today and noticed that the new platform (for an express train to Cardiff) looks complete or near to completion. I'm not sure if it's in service yet but I was wondering what progress is being made elsewhere within the area, particularly with Queen Street and Central Station.

Any updates ?

There's plenty of engineering work going on at both stations (albeit on a relatively small scale), mainly involving the construction of new platforms.

It's difficult to really see what's going on at Central what with scaffolding, portacabins,tarpaulins obscuring a lot of the work.


I'd take some photos for you Kyle, but they really wouldn't be exciting to look at.

On the train the other day there was a notice saying that two new stations were opening on the Rhymney Valley line very soon - one was Energlyn and the other I cant for the life of me remember. Also the thrid platform at Queen St station looks as though it's been completed and will be operational soon.

I did note on a recent journey from Queen St that they had altered the platform numbers around in a way that I found bewildering.

A quick look at wikipedia made it make more sense (after a couple of reads!):

Platform 4 (the old platform 1) is used for services to Aberdare etc.
Platform 3 (the old platform 2) is used for services towards Central.
Platform 2 (the old platform 3) is now only used for services to the Bay, but it will be used for more Valley Lines services once the new bay platform is opened (platform 1).

The fourth platform (platform 5) is currently being refurbished to reduce the bottleneck in Valley Line services at Cardiff Central and Queen Street and a fifth platform (Platform 1) will serve the Cardiff Bay shuttle which operates every 12 minutes.

Simples! I'm still unsure where the new platform 1 is going to be - presumably in the car park of Brunel House?

I so agree with Jantra, this is rare and worth commenting on!!

this whole process stinks, some ok ideas floating around, many been floating for some time by the likes of Sewta etc, nothing that radical.
Yet this has since had loads of public money thrown at it, many of the contracts won by people involved in the initial report, surely a conflict when you are trying to get an independent position and now I understand that the author is seconded into the welsh government to develop it.........again surely a major conflict.
we need a media or opposition who questions some of this ------ that cosy political consensus at the top in wales needs to be challenged a bit more.

someone wants to get a grip of this metro work, from what I hear you could build a new station for what has been spent so far, Sewta must be fuming. when they find out the consultant costs currently being doled out I'd expect a bit of labour party infighting.

Good to see this continuing to gather steam:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/south-wales-metro-system-first-6718872

Although interesting that it seems to be only one line in the picture and flats have been built on the bank in between the line and LGA.

Shame that talks about aiming to get this of the ground are not looking at before 2020, seems a bit unambitious.

They missed out a key paragraph.

"This exciting scheme is expected to be funded by an ambitious and extensive street tin collection scheme spearheaded by a consortium including Ming the Merciless and Flash Gordon ".

FFS - what is happening to journalism these days? Is this a vision that the writer had last night after a few sherries? Where exactly is the not insubstantial £4 billion coming from

This is a HUGE figure, yet no mention is made in the article about where the £4,000,000,000 might be coming from!

wow - hot off the press......

South Wales Metro system:

First steps will be £18m improvement to Cardiff Bay and city centre links

So that's the first steps in just 6 years time!!! when I saw the headline I was just about to rush down there with my camera!

What's most frustrating are the unambitious timescales, it's been 25 years since CBDC was created and talk of a tram has surfaced occasionally since then but nothing at all has happened. The Beddau line is needed ASAP but talk of 7 years inevitably means much longer or not at all.

I don't know who would be the best option to have in charge of this? I think it needs to be one body to take this forward. WG, Sewta and the councils seem too many cooks. TfL work really well for London, maybe we need a transport body for south Wales. Any ideas?

It is rather depressing that the pace of the metro development is so slow, but with the bureaucratic mess it has to go through first, it is hardly surprising.

The image of the bute street station is not new. I think its been around for about a year now.

It's taking a long time because there isn't any money.

And that's because Jantra's thrusting, entrepreneurial heroes in the private sector banking industry lost or stole it all.