Firstly, I'd like to apologize if there is already a topic about this. I've searched, but I have yet to find one.
Over the last couple of weeks, my friends and I have been discussing the possibility of a Cardiff Mreto/subway system.
I've asked several people about the idea, and most of them agreed, and believed it to be a good idea. Looking online, I found that there was quite a movement for it online.
If we did get one, we would be one of the few cities in the UK to have a subway system.
What's your opinion on the matter? Do you think that it's a good idea?
Would the benefit of better transport outweigh the time and cost of construction that could be spent elsewhere?
Would it be worth it if the price was having hundreds of noisy construction workers tearing up the city?
Would you ride on it if we did get one?
And most importantly, do we even need one?
An actual subway i.e. an underground, would cost hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of £££'s. I doubt Wales has the money for such a thing.
Secondly, the population size, density, and physical size of Cardiff is too low and small to warrant one. Even taking into account future projections.
Thirdly, why? the city has a decent bus service and an extensive rail network, though one that still hasn't reached it's full potential- no stations in the east of the city for example- so why go for a system that would be hugely expensive, competing against over modes of public transport, and not offer much more in the way of coverage than what we have already.
Cardiff needs a Metro-style transport network - but there's no need for any of it to be underground. You seem to be confusing two entirely different things.
Hope this helps.
As much as id love a Cardiff 'underground' it would be utterly silly and unnecessary and would bankrupt Wales.
However- as above we absolutely do need an 'integrated transport solution' including more light rail/trams etc.
I think a mixture of both would be brilliant, look at the DLR in London, its just perfect how everything is Integrated together, public transport is amazing an leads to regeneration of areas where there is a station. Once you arrive to Bank station using DLR, the station is literally underground. Would be fantastic if we had our own circle line between Cardiff and Newport, shame politicians and leaders are not very ambitious in this country.
cardiff' internal rail network is ever so basic and could easily be improved. A line running from say St Fagans to St Mellons would be a start. Politicians should be researching the spend in English cities compared to the frugal gifts bestowed on Wales by Whitehall with all things transport. A subterranean rail system would soon turn Cardiff into a metropolis why can't we get the investment?
Some news stories covering the subject:
None of those reports are about a subway system. They are all discussing an integrated metro system, which does not include any underground. Does Cardiff need an integrated, modern travel (ie. metro) system? Yes, absolutely. Does Cardiff need an underground system? No, absolutely not. The cost of the metro system is huge, you could multiply this by 5 and still not get close to the cost of building an underground system, and for what benefit?
Looks like the Metro proposal for the City Region has a new champion http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/business/business-opinion/wales-needs-follow-example-la-3659287
he makes a good point with regards to funding. Which is more important an integrated travel networking better linking Cardiff and Newport with their hinterlands or the new M4 relief road? Seems both will cost around the same amount. Personally, I think the Metro is more important.
A priority would above everything is that the proposed metro has a catchy theme song like the Springfield monorail.
It's more about opening more train stations within the region to make movement within 'Siluria' as one politician wants it to be named easier. A Valleys Circle line, Cardiff Crossrail and Ebbw Vale to Newport are components of which. Plans for the crossrail can be seen here
Will we get dumped with old stock from the London area is what worries me. Who will be responsible for paying for any new stock? Considering the underinvestment from Westminster in our railways we at least deserve trains as good as these on London overground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_378 .
After reading that des is have to say I agree you are wasted
What about Southwales Highly Integrated Transit?
I'd take one of those.
Surely it also has to be cheap enough to undercut the price of a journey by car, too.
Making it cheap enough and convenient enough to use is the secret of success. Obviously it needs to be safe, that goes without saying.
I'm sure there are many ideas about the name for such a network. The main thing is to get.things done.
Don't really think it matters what it's called, just as long as it's not run by Arriva.
Did you actually manage to type that with a straight face?
You would prefer the current shambles?
I know you are ideologically opposed to the state running things, but even you can't argue that the market is operating efficiently as it currently stands.
Without an efficient market there is no benefit to the private sector being involved.
Is that post aimed at me? If so my comment was based on you stating the bits in bold
like the Glas Cymru model for water? you would need to remove the public sector from it totally as they are not best at providing value for money services. that is not to say that the business shouldn't be run on commercial lines with absolutely no outside political influence. I doubt our career politicians would go for it though - any chance to increase their empires and they'll do it.
People in any organization be they public or private sector will act in the way they are incentivised.
Sometimes the public sector CAN become too far insulated from real commercial pressures and there are no real drivers (pun intended) to improve performance or sack poorly performing personnel.
If the private sector is insulated from commercial pressures by not being in a competitive market then this becomes just as inefficient.
I don't think that the railways in this country are condusive to generating a competitive market, if I want to get a train from aber to cardiff there has been only one operator who I can pay to take me there.
Absolutely where there is strong competition, the state should stay way clear, but ther just isn't in the rail industry in the UK, evidenced by us having the highest fares in europe and far from the best service.
In an industry where there is good competition, the state should stay out of it.
A model like the one I suggested if applied top to bottom would apply far more pseudo-competition than exists currently, and I think it would result in a better service, and avoid the inability for some publicly run things to refresh themselves.
That said, having seen how much of the massive state subsidy Arriva syphon off to Germany as profits, then perhaps they are better at taking people for a ride than I give them credit.
http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=1809 Jack bastard blogs that Cardif metro is a big white Elephant intent on swallowing up other Welsh towns into Cardiff.
Well it'll happen one day. I should imagine that most of the nearby towns will get engulfed by Cardiff within the next 50-100 years, most likely starting with Penarth, metro or not.
Nice to see chatter about this continuing:
Thanks for the link. That map in the article is positively titchy, though it does make me wonder, if it ever did happen, where would the stops be?
For me that map is this forum's equivelant of porn
Would like to see A central line running from East to west.. Slowly branch off from this line.. Would help new suburbs evolve
of course we want to see it. fill yer boots and go for it
Here it is: (click here for a larger version)
Dashed routes indicate new or reopened lines, accompanied by a little note.
I'm aware I've forgotten to include Llanedeyrn and Pentwyn, and I could probably include another one or two in the city centre - but it's a work in progress
could you make the text a little bigger?
where do you propose the ferry road/sports village spur would go? some idiot decided to build crappy houses/flats over much of the old track bed...
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