Karl

far be it for me to engage in hyperbole although I was getting the impression some were thinking the corner had been turned. I agree that the reference to O'Hare was probably out of place and should have used Schipol or Atlanta instead. We do need to aim high as we can

You said 'since we are now comparing CWL to O'Hare.' Presumably this was in response to the posts by Jeremy, Simon, Wizard etc referred to above. That isn't phrasing something in your own unique style to support a point made by others or use of outlandish simile to prove a point - it's putting words in other peoples mouths that really bears no comparison to what was written.

Its no skin off my nose of course, this is just shit written on the internet to pass the time, but I find it interesting that you react that way.

I know what I said. It was very much tongue in cheek. Surely you can see that?

Not on the internet I can't. Perhaps we need an appropriate emoticon so that these nuances of language can be fully appreciated by those of us who are more literal.

I can't say I have. Les Dawson was the master of bathos, one of his quotes below -

In awe I watched the waxing moon ride across the zenith of the heavens like an ambered chariot towards the ebony void of infinite space wherein the tethered belts of Jupiter and Mars hang, for ever festooned in their orbital majesty. And as I looked at all this I thought ... I must put a roof on this toilet.

I appreciate I'm not quite at that level but the abrupt style change is usually there if you look hard enough

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/four-new-air-routes-announced-6167378

New ski routes from this winter.

The article mentions departures on Saturdays,so are these just weekly flights?

From little acorns doing mighty oaks grow

*faints*

I saw the headline on the BBC front page 'CHINA TO INVEST IN BRITISH AIRPORT'

My pulse began to race.

It was all starting to make sense.A masterstroke from the WG.

I hovered the mouse over the story ready to click...

Could it possibly be true that Cardiff airport had finally....

 CHINA TO INVEST IN BRITISH AIRPORT 

With all I've read about it, Cardiff Airport is 'doomed' to end up like this.

Personally speaking, I've just given up after 'supporting' it for years. I now use Bristol Airport and, for the few destinations that I want that I can't get from there, I go to Heathrow or Gatwick getting a hotel/car parking deal which isn't a great deal more than the cost of the 'Shuttle' to CWL.

2 bits of news. I feel like I'm always posting bad news on this thread!

1) From the BBC - FLYBE routes under review at all their airports.

 All FLYBE routes under review 

Nothing new there as such. The key concern is that the airline is suffering - so I wouldn't be surprised if the axe fell at least partly at Cardiff airport. Interestingly it doesn't employ a single staff member there - and it's the biggest airline operating out of there !!!


2) I was told by a taxi driver on the weekend that Burger King have closed down their outlet at Cardiff Airport.

I'm waiting for the inevitable ECHO story about the oft-empty Cardiff airport shuttle service being a far more expensive option than taxi-ing passengers in limos to the airport - has this appeared yet?

he new express bus service linking Cardiff Airport and the city centre is costing taxpayers nearly a half a million pounds a year, the Echo understands.

Yet after just one week in operation, the service has already come under fire for poor passenger numbers with some buses running empty.

The Echo rode the Airport Express – which runs every 20 minutes, seven days a week between 5am and 11.40pm – several times last week, right during the peak holiday season.

On half of the journeys we made the bus was empty, while on the other occasions our reporter travelled with just one or two passengers.

In total, out of our six journeys, only four people used the service. This equates to an average of 0.66 passengers per journey.

The Airport Express is funded by the Welsh Government in conjunction with Cardiff and Vale of Glamorgan councils. It is run by First Cymru.

When asked by the Echo, the Welsh Government refused to say how much public money is being spent on the service, which is being piloted over six months initially.

But we understand its agreement with First Cymru is on a “minimum subsidy contract” basis – with the government subsidising the service to the tune of around £470,000 with any additional costs being met by the contractor.

The Welsh Government wouldn’t confirm whether the subsidy worked out at £470,000 a year and it wouldn’t say how many passengers had caught the service in its first week.

The investment in the T9 express service comes after Cardiff Airport was bought by the Welsh Government for £52m in March.

Meanwhile, Cardiff Bus has announced it is to scrap its existing service which runs from the city centre to Llantwit Major via Cardiff Airport.

Last month the operator withdrew the X91 Sunday service and now it is to alter its route, avoiding Cardiff Airport and Rhoose.

In addition to our findings, the poor passenger numbers have been criticised by opposition politicians and members of the public.

Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies compared the situation to something out of the former Soviet Union.

“Many people are watching these shiny new buses drive past as their own bus services are cut.

“It reminds you of the days of Communist Eastern Europe when officials used to drive around in posh limousines while the public suffered,” he said.

Mr Davies said while he welcomed any efforts to turn around the ailing airport, any taxpayers’ money spent on doing so should be spent wisely.

He said the current passenger numbers were understandable given that the Airport Express had been advertised “very poorly” and that most people did not know of its existence.

The South Wales Central AM also questioned the cost of the service when subsidies for other bus services in the region were being slashed.

“It was only the other day when I was dealing with constituents who were unhappy at the loss of the V2 service, they are exacerbated about how they are going to get around during their everyday lives,” he said.

“The important thing is that this reinforces the fact that the Welsh Government will be raiding other budgets to support their trophy project.

“We all want the airport to succeed, it’s very important to future of the country but it shouldn’t be to the detriment of other services.”

One taxi driver who regularly drives holidaymakers to the airport said the amount of money being spent on the service was “farcical”.

The cabbie, who asked not to be named, told the Echo he has seen more than a dozen buses travelling along the route with no passengers on board.

“The new bus service has buses operating three times an hour, 20 hours per day, 363 days a year and is without doubt a case of utter overkill with regards to capacity and an extortionate waste of taxpayers’ money,” he said.

The latest Civil Aviation Authority figures released in June showed the number of passengers over the previous 12 months was just 995,500 – a fall of 10.6%.

And the taxi driver said he was “baffled” by the fact that nearly half a million pounds was being spent on transport links when the airport desperately needed more airlines and routes to attract people to it.

“Who thought that we needed such a bus service as a priority completely baffles me when, without question, the overwhelming problem with the airport is the actual lack of planes and destinations.

“Yes our capital city needs support but let’s get out priority right, get people up in the air first to destinations they want to travel to.”

Liberal Democrat AM Eluned Parrot said she believed the limited takeup of the Express service was down to what she said was “rushed” decisions by the Welsh Government.

“Details of the link were only made public a week or so before it started, so most holidaymakers would have already had their transport plans in place.

“With this in mind, things were never going to start off well.”

She added: “It is imperative that the Welsh Government has comprehensive plans in place for the delivery of this service.

“This bus link can play a big part in the Government’s strategy for the airport to be a success.

Every business person knows that you need sufficent infrustructure inplace before you ask people or expect people to use it...you dont invite airlines to use an airport and say 'if we get enough call for it we will introduce a bus link to the city center sometime in the future, maybe?', u provide the link then you market it? its common sense, if it's costing this much money then so be it! ALL investments cost money before they make money...

The bottom line is that Cardiff Airport now has an excellent and reliable link with the city centre that will support any new flights which do get developed at the airport. It's hardly surprising that many are running empty when there are 3 buses an hour and considerably fewer flights than that! However, I have seen people on the service frequently; a more fruitful statistic would be to assess how many more people are travelling to the airport by public transport than before its introduction.

Ultimately it will cost the taxpayer around 2 million quid to fund this over say four years... not a massive amount of money in the great scheme of things, and it will no doubt make great strides in battling the perception of the airport as somewhat inaccessible; if the airport's fortunes improve over that period then the shuttle service will form a key part of the airport's offering and begin to make sense.

Of course it's a massive overprovision at the moment, but ultimately that's the only way to break a vicious circle of decline. We're too quick to criticise - it needs to be given a considerable amount of time.

Do planes go anywhere interesting? I thought it would be nice to go to Amsterdam until I saw the cost of flights - KLM charge a fortune unless you use Schipol as a hub.

I used the airport bus service not that long ago. About ten passengers on it I'd guess. No doubt we had all arrived on the same plane. It is a good service, seemed quite quick and the bus itself is a good facility, although not a very desirable colour scheme. They play local radio at slightly too high a volume as well.

When I first started using Cardiff airport i used to try the train/mini-bus link or the then multi-stop bus service. Both were rubbish and put me off using the airport. The airport then become very usable again when I switched to getting taxis there and back. It is a pretty quick journey at 4am if you are getting an early flight. It costs £30 both ways which adds a chunk to costs but I'd much rather pay that than mess around with the old bus/train system. However, now with the new bus I'd rather pay out the £5 and save the cash. Unless it's another 4.30 am trip in which case I'll stick to the taxis...

But I have to say, travelling from the airport to Cardiff by taxi really has to be done by booking in advance. It is really depressing having to sit in that shitty little porta-cabin thing they have waiting for a taxi to arrive. Last time I was there the door didnt even shut properly and it was late, cold and wet. The room is ugly ugly ugly and the staff can lean a little towards the rude, or at least unapologetic for not having any cabs to take you anywhere for the next twenty minutes, even though it is a taxi company based at an airport that knows the times the flight come in. In my opinion, this taxi facility is easily the most embarrassing thing about the airport. Just outright shit.

I always used Flightlink Wales when I used the airport. They were always there waiting for me and the prices were very competitive. Admittedly not used for a couple of years as I don't use the airport anymore but I think they still operate?

I recently used the Airport Express shuttle. Very easy. Waited 10 minutes at Cardiff Bus station. Journey was in the morning rush hour (8.05am) but it still got me to the airport in a little over 30 minutes. There were only 2 passengers though.

On return my flight landed at 5pm, the bus back to the city centre had about 15 people on it.

This DOES make it easier to fly from Cardiff. If efforts to boost routes pay off then the shuttle service will complement it.

I think criticisms of the service are more about rent-a-moan and party politics than any serious strategic consideration.

Just bumping this up so that Cardiff Airport is higher than heaven.

Article from WalesOnline;

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-airport-sees-8-passenger-6320686

Good to see the drop in passengers stemmed but only new routes will make a major impact.

Also good to see that Flybe don't seem to be cutting any routes.

Just for your informations guys:-

Qater airways will be flying from Edinburgh 5 times a week from next year. it will fly the new dreamliner :) Wouldn't you just love for this airline to fly Cardiff - Doha?

Dream on. There's probably more likelihood of a daily A380 connection from Cardiff to Oz - and I don't mean Australia.

Budget airline Flybe has confirmed that two routes from Cardiff to Paris Charles de Gaulle and Glasgow will be withdrawn with effect from January 2014.

So now we've lost the only flight connection between southern Wales and the most visited city in Europe.

Well, he can't mean Paris.....?


Most Visited Cities In The World 2012

In the MasterCard Global Destination Cities Index, London leads the world as both the most popular destination city for overseas travelers, and in the average amount each visitor spends.

Jeff,

Maybe I'm a Daily Mail reading UKIP voting little Englander who doesn't believe that Britain is part of Europe.

Other than that, I got mixed up and meant the capital of Europe's most visited country (alas from Europe's least visited probably.... ).

Bit more money being spent on the airport decor, and the Edinburgh flights are to be continued by another firm. They must have read by rant above, as they are to have a new taxi facility. There will also be a (much needed) bigger security area. From the pic below it looks like they will ditch the WHSmiths on the land side of security to make extra space, but the fried breakfast place will stay. Sanity prevails.



http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/improvements-announced-for-cardiff-airport-6394440

sticking lipstick on a pig. what will make all the difference will be flights. nothing else.

Eh? Flybe have ALSO pulled out of the Cardiff - Edinburgh route?

Close the place down for pity sake.

I don't see the problem in tarting the place up as well as attempting to tempt new flights here.

There's no point in doing one without the other as far as I'm concerned.

Obviously it's flights we need and that has to be the main priority. I also agree that there's also no point in dreaming about long haul flights coming here when we can't sustain basic flights to the main European cities. But there's also no point in trying to attract airlines here if there's a lack of basic facilities for passengers and a semi decent way of getting to where they need to go after landing. If new flights come and people start using the airport again that haven't used it for a while and they still find all those things shit it might put them off.

I'll be more convinced when some new airlines arrive of course and it would help hugely if we didn't lose flights to places like Paris and Glasgow.

I agree with Wizard. To be honest, I would have thought that the committee/board/whatever you want to call it is experienced enough to know what they are doing.

Hasn't the Edinburgh one been replaced by another airline?

Is it right that the Burger King has closed? (not sure if its a loss but shows there may be issues with the number of passengers passing though...)

No disrespects to Loganair, but they are essentially an island connection airline serving the most northerly destinations of the UK.

http://www.loganair.co.uk/destinations/route-map (Cardiff are not even on their route map!!! )

What with Aer Arran serving Dublin and Ieuanair/Citywings serving Anglesey, the only signal that I'm receiving is one that exposes Cardiff as being nothing more than a sleepy provincial outpost with little or no demand for either business nor holiday flights to/from the rest of the UK.

pretty disgusted that tax payers money is being used for this loan, will it ever get repiad or lost in a haze of time and ambiguity?
let the banks loan it if they want to and they can make the case.
Good for the airport mind - but as I think Jantra said lipstick on a pig - its not fit for purpose as a modern airport and has likely missed the chance to become a modern airport.
looked at Cardiff to new York this week, Bristol still cheaper and a lot quicker without the long change in the dam or dub

More bad news for Cardiff Airport as hub plans don't make the shortlist
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/heathrow-makes-shortlist-new-runway-6412258

The Radio Wales phone in this morning was all about what would make you use the airport rather than Bristol, Birmingham or one of the London airports.

Obviously the answer is flights to destinations that people wanted to travel for, at comparative prices to those other airports. It's not like local people prefer the inconvenience of having to fly from London!

However, some idiot guest from BA was talking about how they should concentrate on improving the customer experience, and they then started talking about how the attitude should be to persuade people to think "I'm travelling from Cardiff airpot", first, with "I wonder what destination they provide", being second, and choose one from their portfolio.

I kid you not! Talk about missing the point. Does this idiot really think that's what goes through air travellers' minds? Ever?

More poor reporting from Wales Online. The whole story is about how few passengers have used the new Cardiff Airport bus service. The reporter says at the end that he does not understand the paragraph describing the maths behind the figures. Well thats because the figures are wrong.

336 buses per week multiplied by the 12 weeks it has been running = 4,032 buses in total. Not 16,128 like it states. The average is then 12.4 passengers per bus and not 3.1.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news-opinion/peter-collins-cardiff-airport-bus-6411697

You're right. Either they have misquoted the maths teacher when he said:

“The claim in your letter of 50,000 passengers sounds impressive, until you realise that the service runs every 20 minutes for approximately 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

“So as I used to be a teacher the sums are, 3x16x7=336 buses per week, so approx 1344 buses per month, and if it’s been running for, say, about 12 weeks that is 16,128 buses. If you divide this into 50,000 then it is 3.1 passengers per bus.”




OR it is perhaps an embarrassing example of why our PISA Mathematics scores in Wales are so shit if that is the quality of the teaching.


PS They'll also include return passengers in the figures so I reckon the true figure will be 8000 bus journeys carrying 50000 passengers so about 6 per trip.

Having a Maths degree myself, I now stand to be publicly humiliated in my arithmetic should I have made any errors.....

Well you can see what they've done.. they multiplied 1344 by 12 - that is work out how many buses there are in 12 months - rather than the correct 336 by 12 - which is how many buses there are in 12 weeks. And as you say, that latter number should then probably be multiplied by 2.

6 passengers per trip is still not many. It reflects Cardiff's status as largely an outbound airport taking people to their summer holidays, rather than an inbound one bringing business and leisure travellers to Cardiff.