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Re: Bayscape

simon__200
Although great news, can't pretend I'm not slightly disappointed that the high-rise building is yet again on the back-burner until some distant future "phase two".


it is probably more to do with cash flow than anything else. The hotel build will require capital up front to pay the contractor whereas the rental income will take many years to payback the outlay.

Therefore it makes sense to build the development that can be sold and pay for itself within a short space of time. The cash/profit from that development can then be used to help finace the hotel build.

Re: Bayscape

When is construction of the building going to begin?

Re: Bayscape

Joe
When is construction of the building going to begin?


After 402 posts in this thread and 4 years, who knows!!??

Re: Bayscape

Christopher
Carlos is correct. The rigs on site are taking core samples down 40m deep (the investigations I mentioned previously). We've got a good handle on the geology but clearly need to be 100% sure. Construction is due to start June / July as previously highlighted.


Christopher
Karl is correct. Works will commence this summer as stated.



earlier in the year Christopher stated that works would commence in June/July/Summer 2013. I haven't seen any activity on site and was wondering if this project has been delayed?

NB I appreciate the planning amendment gave until the end of September 2013 as a deadline for work to start so we still have two months yet. I'm just eager I suppose. If this does start then with Cardiff Pointe and the ice rink, snow dome, hotels and other towers, this part of town could be a construction site for the next 4-5 years

Re: Bayscape

Looking back through this thread, hasn't it been a case of 'starting soon' since August, 2009?

Re: Bayscape

Greetings from sunny Dubai :)

I am starting to lose faith in this Bayscape project. :(

Re: Bayscape

Chris Jenkins
Greetings from sunny Dubai :)

I am starting to lose faith in this Bayscape project. :(



I don't blame you for losing a little faith Chris, but is it any different to what's going on over here in Dubai where endless projects stalled because of the financial situation throughout the world? Things are clearly on the up again as there's loads of construction on the go (including some stunning projects), but look at all the failed ones over here.

The one thing I'm curious about with Bayscape is if Wyndham are still involved with the hotel tower. It's certainly looking like we may see developments elsewhere on the Ferry Road peninsula prior to either the residential scheme or the hotel tower.

Re: Bayscape

Confirmation in today's planning apps that there will be further delays. They've now asked for more time:

"APPLICATION FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE RESERVED MATTERS SHALL BE MADE TO THE
LOCAL PLANNING AUTHORITY BEFORE THE EXPIRATION OF FOUR YEARS FROM THE DATE OF
THIS PERMISSION."

Reading the documents it now says they want an extra year:

"The developer’s vision for the project has not changed since the scheme was conceived. However the economic climate has become considerably more demanding. Bayscape Ltd has been working hard to find a way to finance the project in despite these demands and so deliver substantial market and affordable housing and regeneration benefits for Cardiff.

An innovative solution has been agreed which involves funders, materials suppliers, guarantors and Willmott Dixon as main contractor. However, with so many parties involved, it has taken longer than expected to complete the legal documentation required before the agreement can be implemented. In turn, this has set back the design development programme. The proposed variation of condition 1C would allow one extra year for the submission of reserved matters in order to accommodate this delay."

Not sure when exactly they needed to confirm things before - so not clear when things start.

But maybe a mix of good and bad news? Delays = bad news. But the fact they are still plugging away means that we might see something like the original proposal here eventually?

Re: Bayscape

I feel fairly confident we well see something eventually. I feel rather sorry for Christopher who's well-intentioned efforts to keep us up to date with the plans have rather back-fired on him. I think there are pretty clear signs around the city that the pace of development is picking up but I'm not sure that bringing Bayscape to the market at the same time as Cardiff Pointe would be a wise move.

Re: Bayscape

Ash
.....but I'm not sure that bringing Bayscape to the market at the same time as Cardiff Pointe would be a wise move.


It would appear they have 'missed the boat', realised it and are putting it off till it better suits them. If this project had started when it was first 'announced' on here, it would be up by now! We all appreciated that the financial situation would affect the plans. Why didn't Chrisopher and his ilk??

Re: Bayscape

Idunno
Ash
.....but I'm not sure that bringing Bayscape to the market at the same time as Cardiff Pointe would be a wise move.


It would appear they have 'missed the boat', realised it and are putting it off till it better suits them. If this project had started when it was first 'announced' on here, it would be up by now! We all appreciated that the financial situation would affect the plans. Why didn't Chrisopher and his ilk??


I'm not sure that the latest details posted by Christopher stated that they were planning the Bayscape tower the same time as Cardiff Pointe anyway. That had already been relegated to a future phase 2. Thus, I can only see a further delay as bad news.

Re: Bayscape

RandomComment
Not sure when exactly they needed to confirm things before - so not clear when things start.


The original planning permission (08/02191/C) had the decision made by the planning committee on 29 Sep 2010.

So that gives them until 29th September 2013 to complete the legal documentation under the original planning application. The new application would give them to 29th Sep 2014.

Hopefully it's just to give them some breathing room from next months deadline, rather than requiring a full year of further negotiations/agreements.

I think the news is positive providing it is just to offer some contingency while they get everything finalised.

Wishing them all the best, and looking forward to seeing the area cleared ready for work to begin.

Re: Bayscape

I still think it's all going to happen. This is just buying them more time.

I don't know why I'm so positive about it, but it's just a feeling.

Re: Bayscape

This is not a delay of a year but an extension to ensure we are not rushed in discharging reserved matters.

We see Cardiff Pointe positively. The various projects underway on the ISV are quite different in terms of their offering, value point and sizes. The completion of the area is good too. Indeed we are quietly progressing private invitation based sales of the residential before we go to market.

As the poster above cited, our funding is done so we are just deciding on when to go over the coming few months.

Re: Bayscape

ensure we are not rushed in discharging reserved matters

Rushed, No worries there

Maybe you need Peter Hain on board, he could oversee Bayscape as well as the Barrage construction, while you concentrate on the party to celebrate the 4th anniversary of this thread at the end of this month

Re: Bayscape

Happy 4th Birthday everyone.



30th August 2009 is when Bayscape Started, this thread that is!

Re: Bayscape

Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday Dear Bayscape Thread

Wheeeeeeeee!

Re: Bayscape

If Gail's post on the Cardiff Pointe thread "I understand that as of 2 weeks ago, 3 units have been sold and due to the waiting list for the £1m homes, the price of these may be increased to £1.5m." is correct then surely we can look forward to a start on the residential element of Bayscape. A finish in time for the threads coming of age.

Re: Bayscape

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Bayscape built. Yes, maybe now is a lot better than over the past four years.

What I (and others) have been critical about is the announce it 50 times and do it not attitude.

Even Nu Labour with their announce it ten time attitude, did at least do it once.

Remember, the UK has the highest combined public/private indebtedness ratio in the developed world. Housing developers and the rest of the housing vested interests seem intent on creating another housing bubble and leaving future generations to pick up the pieces.

Re: Bayscape

Before everyone jumps on my case – received a pamphlet in the post this week regarding the “Cardiff Marina Residences”. While geared towards the impact of the build on boat owners it did state “Building work is scheduled to start in the final quarter of 2013. The construction of the apartments, the new marina facilities and the waterside bar/restaurant is expected to take 20 months to complete.” Even offered me as a valued customer an exclusive ‘off market’ deal ahead of the public launch of the flats.

Re: Bayscape

Seems encouraging.

Re: Bayscape

apologies all, this is not an update...i'm just after information on whether anything is happening with this project. We were told that things would start in September (or was it the Autumn) and I am looking for some positive information if any exists.

Re: Bayscape

We were told that things would start in September


You have to be kidding, this is a joke post just for my benefit, isn't it??

We were told it would start 4 years ago! if Bayscape put out a press release saying November would follow October, I would still have to study my calendar very closely to see it it were true.

Re: Bayscape

There's a meeting with the boat owners early in November to explain the impact the build will have. Lots of yacht owners are looking to move to another marina as they will lose the slipway and maintenance yard. Cardiff Marina are pushing the yard behind Force4 on Penarth Road forgetting that all the low bridges will require masts be taken down to get to it - read not going to happen! But as of now, no activity observed on the site......

Re: Bayscape

It's another glass needle. If it happens I will come back to Cardiff from Portishead and buy a pint for everyone on the forum..

Re: Bayscape

A few points in response.

- Works commence in Q4 as outlined in the flyer. To be clear on timing I have long-since stated we would start when we felt the market was right. The logistics of works are now under the control of the contractor.
- The slipway will remain at the marina in the form of a new tracked trolley hoist in the same spot. Short-term periods out of the water will be allowed
- Long-term storage at Cardiff Marine Village will be accompanied by special offers, de-rigging, re-rigging and inspection and repairs for bertholders. CMG is acquiring an additional acre of land at the village and will in time build a further 120 dry stack spaces.
- The Bayscape phase 1 development will deliver a new marina management suite, bar restaurant, coffee lounge, retail spaces and high spec bertholder bathrooms. The plans for these will be presented during the bertholder meeting. The contractor will also be onhand to answer any questions.

Re: Bayscape

Now it's Bayscape phase 1 "We will send out the flyers"

"To be clear on timing I have long-since stated we would start when we felt the market was right."
Read some you your old press releases, this is not what you said or were quoted as saying!!


Can we rename this thread; Cardiff Marina Extension.


"high spec bertholder bathrooms" "special offers"

I know we all love some news but this has become like a bad marketing e-mail.



Re: Bayscape

Thank you for the update Christopher.

Will be interesting to know from the meeting, the deadline for boat owners to have to clear the area, and also the estimated duration of phase 1 development.

Re: Bayscape

LocalResident
Thank you for the update Christopher.

Will be interesting to know............the estimated duration of phase 1 development.


Well, if this thread is anything to go by.............!!??

Re: Bayscape

This Thread has gone quiet. Are there problems?

Re: Bayscape

This Thread has gone quiet. Are there problems?


You are sort of new to this thread I presume!

Re: Bayscape

Jeff
This Thread has gone quiet. Are there problems?
as much as well all wanted this to happen I think the reality is this project is not going to happen, certainly not in the form we have come to expect

Re: Bayscape

I think Jantra is speaking the truth.

Re: Bayscape

Christopher
All,

I am pleased to confirm that Bayscape was approved at yesterday's planning committee meeting.

This is clearly excellent news for the project and the commercial agreements we have in place.

I will revert with more news on the operator and other commercial occupiers in due course.

Further to this good news we are now pushing forward the project as quickly as possible with a view to making a start on site in 2010. More soon.


The above post was October 15th 2009.

I'll never believe in Father Christmas again!!

Re: Bayscape

It looks like there may still be a small sign of life on this project:

  • See 13/02547/DCI (You may need to search using the reference if the link doesn't work)


It's not quite as promising as seeing workmen on the site, but still suggests that's the intention sooner or later.

Re: Bayscape

As hopeful as we can be I think this is more to do with implementing a new river bus stop than anything to do with bayscape

Re: Bayscape

nothing to report I'm afraid. I'm just adding comment that I think this project is dead in the water. We were told Q4 2013 that it would start and nothing has happened as of yet. I doubt anything will happen now in 2013 given the dates. Not only that the developer has been quick to comment on expected progress when others have doubted it would start but this time we have not heard anything at all. It is a shame as it did look a great development.

Re: Bayscape

Going in 2014 - another year and still no progress. This project is dead in the water I think. Very sad :(

Re: Bayscape

I noticed today that they've emptied the large shed and removed a number of stored things and trailors etc. Nothing like a good clear out to lift the spirits....

Re: Bayscape

Bay Sailor
I noticed today that they've emptied the large shed and removed a number of stored things and trailors etc. Nothing like a good clear out to lift the spirits....


Probably getting ready to leave the site. I wonder who will buy it? Woolworths? Comet? HMV? The list could be endless......

Re: Bayscape

Drove past on the Penarth side of the river today and from my brief distant glimpse they appeared to be demolishing the shed/accomodation structure within the compound, close to the river.

They also still havent allowed any boats or trailers etc to be parked in the large area they cleared prior to test drilling. You would have thought if this was on long term hold that area would once again fill up with stored boats etc.

I know it is not the arrival of a piling rig but you never know!

Optimistic?

Re: Bayscape

@carlos

I thought that when I ran past the site the other day. I have my doubts though, the developer usually informs us of progress but these days Christopher is quiet.

Re: Bayscape

I thought I saw some movement there today then realised it was just a bloke collecting litter!

Re: Bayscape

Jantra
@carlos

I thought that when I ran past the site the other day. I have my doubts though, the developer usually informs us of progress but these days Christopher is quiet.


I thought Christopher had given up, because people who don't understand that we've been in an economic crisis were angry that the building didn't start a few years ago?

Re: Bayscape

James
Jantra
@carlos

I thought that when I ran past the site the other day. I have my doubts though, the developer usually informs us of progress but these days Christopher is quiet.


I thought Christopher had given up, because people who don't understand that we've been in an economic crisis were angry that the building didn't start a few years ago?


I'm like you in that I hope that's the reason for his absence rather than the project has stalled.

Re: Bayscape

I'm like you in that I hope that's the reason for his absence rather than the project has stalled.


Maybe Christopher is limiting his Forum Comments so he can spend more time with his development.
I remember that Norman Foster chap was on every other forum, commenting on his French Viaducts, Parliament Buildings in Germany. You couldn't keep him off Facebook and Twitter, letting the world know every twist and turn of his latest development.

I'm glad Christopher just keeps his head down and gets things done!

Re: Bayscape

I thought Christopher. Made only a few posts since someone else made posts using his name. And those posts were kept short. Real shame really. Not often we get a developer willing to explain the ins and outs. especially on a project of this size.

Re: Bayscape

Afraid i don't have any news, just wondering if anyone else had heard anything?

I walked past the site the other day and the shed has now gone, it also looks like a number of spotlights have been taken down, but more interestingly it looks like quite a few of the boats (and floating offices) have gone too. I counted 13 boats left, which sounds quite a few but there seemed to be alot more free space, compared to when I had previously been past. I wonder if its just the time of year to get boats back in the water, or if there is a date they are trying to clear the area by... I can but hope.

Re: Bayscape

Unless it's a typo, the planning committee will be discussing planning application 13/00310/DCI (Bayscape phased development) at the meeting on Wednesday 12th March 2014.
(If link doesnt work, do a simple search for 13/00310/DCI and then look at Important Dates)

Even I'm struggling to be optimistic about this development anymore, but at least it may give some closure.

Re: Bayscape

Information about Wednesday's planning meeting is available here.


Had a quick look through the Bayscape document, and seems the following is going to be discussed:


  • Reduce affordable housing cost to developer by £2m, to make scheme viable.

  • Extend the time limit on when the legal matters must be signed by.

  • A building works contract for Phase 1 of the works is let within 6 months of
    approval of reserved matters.


Additionally I spotted the following:
The Bayscape scheme involves the development of a hotel on Phase 2, and
whilst some interest has been shown, no operator or purchaser has been
secured and this element of the project will remain on hold for the time being.

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