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Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ben Mitchell
WOULD LOVE TO SEE IF DVLA IS GOING TO CLASSIFY THOSE NEW CONTINUATION AS HISTORIC?

NOW THE WORD FACSIMILE ACCORDING TO Denis Jenkinson HAS BEEN CHANGED TO CONTINUATION
"Facsimile"
Purely and simply a racing car that now exists when there never was an original. If a factory built four examples of a particular Grand Prix model, for instance, and there are now five in existence, then the fifth can only be a facsimile, fake, clone, copy or reproduction. If the fifth car was built by the same people or factory who built the four original cars, then at best it could be a “Replica” of the four original cars


I don't see how DVLA could accept the 'new' cars as historic based on their own current criteria which won't accept original running chassis to which a replacement body has been fitted or whereby any deviation from the original mechanics is rejected.

Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I don't know about the other makes, but I believe the Aston Martins are intended for racing only and not road use at all, so probably would not need to get involved with a DVLA registration. Should any of these new classics? be used on the road, the V5C should show the date of its first registration, which is a bit of a giveaway to the origin of the vehicle.

Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Never mind chaps.
The fellow in charge at the DVLA did very well in the New Year honours.
A Knighthood I gather.

R.M.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

If any of these cars were registered for road use I wonder if they would be issued with a new car number that could then be changed to a "cherished" plate? Anyone looking on would be none the wiser?


I think that some lesser "look alike" efforts can be a generous "homage" to the original without getting silly with the price. I imagine there are a few kits that could be fun to assemble. I am thinking about the superficially accurate representations of the SS100 Jaguar and "C" type that are produced either in house or in kit form by Suffolk Sports cars. Not cheap, but well done, none the less.

http://www.suffolksportscars.com

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Hi Folks

Looks like there has been some progress between DVLA and FBHVC on the subject of appropriate replacement bodies to vehicles with original chassis, and running gear, whose old bodies are beyond repair.

See page 2 in this weeks's Classic Car Weekly! Also try www.fbhvc.co.uk

This may help those currently in limbo with A7 replica body projects but might still be tricky for "Specials" and also bring some relief to all our valued spares suppliers, whose businesses I suspect have been a bit dented by all the uncertainty over the last two years.

I hope that further clarification should become available in the next few weeks....???

Makes a pleasant change from reading about Brexit c**p and Trump.

So get out to that cold garage and get back to work on your new body on an old chassis?

Take care

Bill G

Scottish Border ( no wall here yet!)

Location: Scottish Border

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Two quotes from the Classic Car Weekly article mentioned by Bill " New guidelines suggest that the replacement body is one that could have been placed on it from the outset,or is of a style which has become associated with the marque". "The FBHVC and DVLA are to develop a valid glossary of terms to identify bodies which it will share in the future" . The latter quote is open to interpretation. Anyone got a clue about what it could mean? If it is going to be a long list we could be waiting to register our cars until Doomsday.

Location: Sheffield

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

'Sigh'

If only it wasn't taking sooooo loooonngg it's worse than watching paint dry.
On the plus side it's beginning to sound like repro' sports-tourer bodies would become acceptable finally, but it would be good to have something concrete to work from.
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Can I suggest that the Austin 7 fraternity are proactive in putting forward some ideas initially within the Forum and the A7CA? To ensure that those in the A7 scene can dispel the cloud that has hung over many restorers for the last 2 years or more.

For starters: please consider the following, as ways to replace or change a body type on an original factory chassis. Should we also argue for period type spaceframe chassis?

A) Replacement replica bodies: of a type made by the factory or by coach builders in period: for A7's this might run to 50 kinds?

B) Sporting bodies : of a type commonly made and accepted by Clubs such as A7 Clubs, VSCC for sporting , trialling or other motorsports.

C) Commercial bodies: modelled on body types manufactured by the original manufacturer, or period commercial coach builders.

D) Special bodies: bodies made as one offs or in very small numbers by enthusiasts, following in the footsteps of Bill Williams, John Haynes and Colin Chapman whose A7 efforts changed motoring in the UK significantly.

All of the above , for Austins anyway, to be eligible for DVLA Historic road fund status should use period components wherever possible, but in all cases, A7 clubs should jointly establish a set of guidelines lines ( and an inspection regime similar to the existing system)and via A7CA and FBHVC for our line of cars.

I hope that a sensible on line consultation scheme can be organised.

FBHVC 's recent economic survey of the value of the historic vehicle sector should by now have made it clear to policy makers and politicians that this industry both had real heritage and economic benefits to a the Uk.

Take care!

Bill G @ Scottish Border

Location: Scottish Border

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

The latest newsletter from the FBHVC reports on the current position regarding vehicle identity and the replacement of bodies on vehicles with chassis.
There’s so much ambiguity in the report that it begins to smack of obfuscation. On the face of it the DVLA, the FBHVC and assorted worthies have had a bit of a cosy chat and come up with a scheme which allows for replacement bodies on vehicles with chassis. But there’s something in the report’s wording that makes me think that not all is as it seems and points towards a future where replacement bodies will be acceptable if they come only from an ‘approved’ supplier. The first nail in the coffin for the home-built Special.

‘We have reached an understanding with DVLA on how the
treatment of replacement bodies on chassis will be dealt with
through their different schemes. DVLA accept that original
bodies may properly be replaced, not least because bodies
deteriorate and may need replacing over time’.

Properly? What’s that supposed to mean? Well, one suggestion is that a ‘properly’ replaced body is one that’s identical to the one that was originally on the chassis. That’s the second nail in the coffin for Special builders but good news for specialist suppliers.

‘For vehicles applying under the V765 Scheme for the recovery
of an original registration number, the applicant or supporting
club should set out clearly the nature of the replacement body
fitted, especially if the style is different to that quoted on a
supporting original log book, which of course must always
be supplied if available, as it is DVLA’s preferred primary
evidence of the identity of the vehicle’.

Is this saying that the DVLA’s preferred primary source is the body or the logbook? If it’s the body, the DVLA is ignoring the government guidelines unearthed by Bob Owen that indicate perfectly clearly that the identity of a vehicle with a chassis is determined only by the chassis; the vehicle’s body plays a part only in the designation of its type; Saloon, Sports, Tourer, etc.
If the logbook is the primary source (which seems sensible) and a change of body style takes place, it is crucial that the DVLA have no part in the process other than to record the change. That, after all, is their job.

‘The application should demonstrate that the replacement body is one that could
have been placed on it from the outset or is of a style which
historically has become associated with the marque’.

Who, I wonder, is considering setting themselves up as the arbiter of style? Surely not the DVLA or the FBHVC! And what constitutes an historical association? My Hillman 14 was once a tractor and I’ve got the picture to prove it! This is all completely barmy and it’s clear that the determination of the DVLA to pigeon-hole everything is the driving force behind this malevolence.

I know I bang on about Special builders but, a long-standing freedom under law and a tradition of Special building that’s the envy of the world is being subtly eroded and, unless the FBHVC include and get a ‘Special’ body category in their demands, I regret to say that the FBHVC and all their friends in high places will be responsible for the cultural cleansing that’s likely taking place.

Location: Suffolk

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel


Properly? What’s that supposed to mean? Well, one suggestion is that a ‘properly’ replaced body is one that’s identical to the one that was originally on the chassis. That’s the second nail in the coffin for Special builders but good news for specialist suppliers.
.


I take properly to mean as in the dictionary definition:-
'correctly, or in a satisfactory way'

My immediate personal interpretation was it meant 'in a satisfactory way' so not far off the dictionary definition.

We still need to keep a close eye on proceedings though, just in case the DVLA has a different interpretation of the meaning
I also agree we must maintain emphasis that a variety of bodies were and are possible because of the historically normal practice to purchase a motorized chassis to be subsequently bodied elsewhere - either by individual or company.

Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel


‘The application should demonstrate that the replacement body is one that could
have been placed on it from the outset or is of a style which
historically has become associated with the marque’.

Who, I wonder, is considering setting themselves up as the arbiter of style? Surely not the DVLA or the FBHVC! And what constitutes an historical association?


The blurb states previously that all this is expected to be part of the V765 process. So, for an Austin Seven, I would be expecting the relevant club's named V765 representative to be stating that my Ulsteroid or other "period" replica coachwork is entirely representative of the marque.


In the case of Cambridge sports replica/other vaguely vintage looking body
or come to that a Hamblin Cadet or even a Markham-Peasey style body, I would expect the V765 representative to state that any of these body styles are historically associated with the marque, so should also get a "tick in box"

Of course, this happy situation would rely on the DVLA accepting the V765 reps' word, something for which they don't have anything like a 100% record to date.

Location: N W Kent

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Steve,

It’s not the definition of ‘properly’ I’m concerned about, it’s the criteria.

The FBHVC newsletter announces that it and the DVLA have ‘reached an understanding’ but doesn’t describe that understanding with any real clarity; in fact, with careful reading the report raises more questions than it answers, hence my comment about obfuscation.

I think the FBHVC need to come clean and state clearly what their position is regarding Specials. I asked David Whale this very question and he replied, ‘It depends what you mean by Special’.

That to me spoke volumes.

Location: Suffolk

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Hi Nigel,
Yes I totally agree that there's still a lack of detail and clarity.
We still need specifics regarding specials, David Whale must know what is meant by a 'special', particularly in connection with Austin 7's but as we know there are Ford's and other chassis based vehicles too.
So he would appear to be being deliberately vague which is worrying.

Steve.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Liam McDermott
Liam McDermott
A friend who received a letter from DVLA in July regarding his Historic registration on his 1930 A7 which he registered with DVLA two years ago. Has just received a letter from DVLA.
Quote
Thank you for your letter of 29 August about vehicle registration number …..
I apologise for the delay in my reply.
This letter is to let you know that DVLA are continuing to look at your case, however I will write to you again soon with a full response.
Unquote
Stephen Voller
Dec 13, 2015 - 2:43PM
Quote Reply Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all
Is your friend trying to get the cars original number officially reissued to his vehicle or trying to get a new age related number allocated ?
Certainly seems to be a lengthy process, I dread to think how many vehicles currently involved and that's without those of us still waiting to register.
Steve V

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

My friend just received a letter from DVLA requesting him to make an appointment with SGS for the car to be examined.
A good start I think. but took a year to get this letter.
Liam



Since the examination We heard nothing from DVLA. This morning received a letter from DVLA (it must be the decision) It was not, it was a reminder to get the vehicle to be taxed for a further year.
My friend is still in limbo he can use the car but he can still receive a letter from DVLA at any moment cancelling the V5c.
WHAT A MESS

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

What must be really reassuring is that the latest FBHVC contains the choice statement about DVLA:

"they do wish to assist in the preservation of our motoring heritage,
and have no wish to make unnecessary difficulties."


Odd to read such words when cases have been appealed right up to their CEO and dismissed out of hand in addition to the recent issues.
That the FBHVC parrots such twaddle beggars belief. The only constructive move that the Federation has made was to email Greg Knight

Charles

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I am thinking that out there,there must be lots of Austin 7 two seater specials that are still registered as four seater saloons, and even more with the wrong engine number . So what the hell do they do. Maybe someone in authority can advise such owners.? Terry .

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

It strikes me that needlessly sticking one's head above the parapet can have an unfortunate outcome...

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Concise and to the point.
Bliss.

Location: Bristol

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Or, to put it another way;
God looks after those who look after themselves.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Classic Cars March-April 2017
DVLA Gives thumbs up to reproduction bodies
The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs FBHVC and the DVLA have reached an understanding over age related registrations for rebodied classics.
The agency accepts that original bodies may properly be replaced on an existing chassis as they deteriorate over time. The (Registration) application should demonstrate that the replacement body is on that could have been placed on it from the outset or is of a style associated with the marque.

Location: North London

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Now I have to add a special to the list of things to be done, the parts have been sitting there for some time.

Location: Oakley , hants

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Hello all

I'm just trawling through this thread, and to be honest, I know INF 26 backwards, or at least, I did when I had a very good contact at the DVLA.

The vehicle referred to here on ebay, is one of mine, I am www.aerocyclecars.com and I can confirm that this particular vehicle, and in fact all of mine do not retain their original registrations at all. After MSVA, the process requires the surrender of the donor motorcycle's V5C and an age related registration is granted, all within the aegis of INF 26....which was being re written a few years ago anyway.

I'll continue with the thread, in fact I discussed this very subject with Rod Yates a few weeks ago when I ordered a body from him.

I'm on chassis 44 now and have never had a serious problem yet with DVLA over age related numbers.

regards

Arthur

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Liam McDermott
Liam McDermott
Liam McDermott
A friend who received a letter from DVLA in July regarding his Historic registration on his 1930 A7 which he registered with DVLA two years ago. Has just received a letter from DVLA.
Quote
Thank you for your letter of 29 August about vehicle registration number …..
I apologise for the delay in my reply.
This letter is to let you know that DVLA are continuing to look at your case, however I will write to you again soon with a full response.
Unquote
Stephen Voller
Dec 13, 2015 - 2:43PM
Quote Reply Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all
Is your friend trying to get the cars original number officially reissued to his vehicle or trying to get a new age related number allocated ?
Certainly seems to be a lengthy process, I dread to think how many vehicles currently involved and that's without those of us still waiting to register.
Steve V

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

My friend just received a letter from DVLA requesting him to make an appointment with SGS for the car to be examined.
A good start I think. but took a year to get this letter.
Liam


Since the examination We heard nothing from DVLA. This morning received a letter from DVLA (it must be the decision) It was not, it was a reminder to get the vehicle to be taxed for a further year.
My friend is still in limbo he can use the car but he can still receive a letter from DVLA at any moment cancelling the V5c.
WHAT A MESS



I have the same problem have heard nothing from DVLA. I can tax it etc with no problem. Does this mean no action going too be taken? In the original letter 2 years ago they stated that I cannot sell the car as they will not issue a new V5c to the new owner.

Location: West London

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